Want YOUR opinion on transaction (INFO)

I'm at a point where I'm not too pleased where I'm sitting with a situation so I wanted to get some other peoples input to see if I'm being screwed or if I just need to bite the bullet. I'm assuming the guy who I purchased the animal from is going to read this and I want him and everyone else to know I have no ill feelings...just stuck in a crappy situation. All that said, lets begin.

I purchased a snake off the kingsnake forums late December and the money arrived to him on the 5th of January. I received the animal via Delta Dash on January 11th. The flight was delayed for about 2 hours but I was there the second he arrived. I opened the box outside and the snake was FREEZING. I've honestly never felt a snake so cold. He was moving very slowly and was very lethargic. There was a single heat pack taped to the top of a well-insulated large box. It was mildly warm at best.

The snake wrapped around my arm pretty tightly and I stuck my arm and the snake under my shirt and against my chest inside the car. Had the heater running pretty decently as well for the 30-45 minute drive home. When I arrived home I used my mini temp gun on him and it came up at 72 degrees. This was after the 30-45 minute heated drive plus my body heat. I put him into his cage and left him alone. I emailed the seller and told him the entire story and my concerns. He said everything should be fine and we'll wait and see. (I'd also like to add the seller has always responded to every email and called me a number of times just to chat.)

Well last Thursday (January 28) I arrived home from work and checked my animals and this guy was blowing bubbles out of his mouth. I called up and made a vet appointment and got him checked out. After talking to the vet I decided to go ahead and get a culture done as well to pinpoint what the issue was. Results should be in by Tuesday or so.

So now I'm out another $177.14 for the vet, culture and meds. I keep 2 other snakes in identical conditions and have never had a single problem. I guess the point of writing this book is to ask could the RI be caused by the temp drop during the shipment? If so, shouldn't the seller foot the cost of this vet bill? Or at least some of it? After being in my possession for 18 days do I have any ground to stand on?

I'm not looking to burn any bridges or give anyone a bad name. I'm also not looking to pay an extra 200 bucks out of my pocket for something that isn't my fault. Any advice would be great. Thanks.

In my opinion, a drastic temp drop could cause a respiratory infection that is just now showing obvious visual symptoms. Of course, After 18 days other factors could have caused this as well.

Does the seller know the snake is ill now? Have you given him/her a chance to make this situation right? It sounds like the seller has been friendly and communicated well with you and they may be willing to help out. What are the seller's TOS?

Since there has been a few weeks since the snake's arrival I think an appropriate solution might be a 50/50 split of the vet bills. Of course, I don't know all the facts but that seems reasonable to me.

Well, I will have this to say.
The shipper, by your explination shipped they way he should have. He used a heat pack and an insulated box. There really is nothing more he can do. The flight was delayed which is something neither ofyou can control.
The only thing is to see what the results of the culture are and go from there.
These things happen and people need to take considerations of this risk when purchasing snakes this time of year (or the summer time for that matter even with a cold pack). SHipping is risky at times and we do what we can do, as shippers, to insure the safety and well being of the snake.
I think it says allot about the seller, being that he contacts you when you email him, you have phone conversations etc. he is in a tough position. Being that he has not blown you off, I would bet that he does feel bad and wants to make sure the snake is ok.

Bottom line, like I already stated, he did what he could do to insure the best for the snake. The only other thing that could of been done is to use 2 heat packs, but that is the past now and probably would not be needed had it not been delayed.

"Does the seller know the snake is ill now? Have you given him/her a chance to make this situation right? It sounds like the seller has been friendly and communicated well with you and they may be willing to help out. What are the seller's TOS?"

Yes, he knows the snake is ill now. I emailed him and spoke to him on the phone. I have said that I'm not happy about having to spend the extra money and he agreed that it sucked. He didn't offer to pay or half the vet bills. He did offer a refund for the snake if I felt it necessary, which I do not.

This is where this post comes in. If I felt he was 100% at fault I would have asked for a refund or for him to pay for the vet bill. If I felt 100% at fault I wouldn't be posting this either, my fault equals my headache. I don't really know who is to blame. Probably Delta but at this point I'm sure we can't make a claim.

Brain, I agree with you completely. Although once the snake arrived cold I was thinking that 1 or 2 more heat packs (at a total cost of what 3 dollars?) should have been used for a January shipment.

I have no doubt that the seller is indeed one of the good guys, but I'm also less $177 in my bank account. I hesitated to even post this and decided posting without using his name would be OK.

I can see where you would think that 2 or 3 heatpacks would be better. The problem is, these are things that need to be discussed before shipping, not after the snake arrives cold.
I received 3 snakes on January 7th and they were fine and only had one heat pack......that was my snakes though and I know your deal is not the case.
This is why it is so important to talk about all these concerns before the deal is complete and shipped.

I don't feel like this is the responsibility of the buyer at all. I don't care if he uses no heatpacks or 57. As long as the animal arrives to me in the condition as described then there are no problems. This is the point where I feel the seller is responsible for the fees I had to pay out. I'm supposed to tell a person how to ship to me??

Whether Delta was delayed or not shouldn't the shipper provide enough heat to cover for that? If he does not, then doesn't this make him fully responsible for the health of the animal? In any event, it's either the shipper or Delta's fault and yet I am stuck with the bill.

More than a little frustrating.

I am not really pointing fingers at EITHER of you. I AM telling you how I do things in my deals. As the buyer I tell the shipper everything I want done in order to insure the safety and wellbeing of the snake I spend my hard earned money on. I check the weather online of the place it is coming from and the place it is going to (here) and even Atlanta since 75% of all Delta Dash shipments go through there. I take whatever steps are needed to make it right and not have problems.

"I'm supposed to tell a person how to ship to me??"

My snwer would be, depends on how much your money meens to you and the well being of the snake. I am not suggesting you do not want the snake to be safe, but YES, I feel as the buyer I have an obligation to cover these basis as well.

You asked for opinions, I am jsut telling you what I do.

Let me just add, I am NOT trying to sound like an a$$. I DO understand your frustration.

I just think (as WHOLE and in GENERAL) both sides need to share info in order to make sure that there are no problems.

One question that was asked that you have not responded to (or at least I may have missed it) is, what werethe terms you all agreed on when doing the deal. What did he guarantee? What did you ask of him in reference to a guarantee?

David,

In my opinion it is a shared responsability. Certain weather conditions are not ideal for shipping and the buyer should not demand shipping if it involves a risk for the animal. On the other hand is the seller the one responsible for ensuring the animal arrives in good conditions. He has control on the whole situation, when to ship, how to ship, how many heat packs to include, etc. He is the one that has to take every precaution to ensure the animal arrives safe and sound. If the buyer suspect the seller has little experience in how to ship then he might instruct some "specifics" as how he would like the shipment handled. But this sets a difficult precedent. If anything happens during transit, it will be blamed on the buyer's specifications for shipping and not on the seller's shipping methods. A person that wants to sell reptiles online and ship via carriers should know how to ship safely. In my opinion it's a fundamental part of doing business online.

Brian, I do see where you're coming from but as Alvaro said, if the seller ships at the standards you give him and the snake dies whose fault is it? My animal arrived extremely cold. In fact I believe if this wasn't a retic it very easily could have died. If it arrived dead would it be his problem? What if there were no heat packs? Would it then completely be his fault? It was a very large box and I don't feel one heat pack was nearly enough for the size of the box and the snake being shipped. I'm very new to shipping snakes but if I was shipping out the same animal in the same box I know I would have used 2 or 3.

As far as not answering the earlier question I must have skipped over it. This is only the 3rd snake I've received via shipping. I did not talk to the seller about his shipping methods. I guess this is lesson learned. I assumed if you're going to sell something and assume the responsibility of the shipping then its your problem until the snake arrives. 60 degrees isn't ok with me. So at the point I receive it and it's this cold I guess I should ask for a refund? I'm not trying to be a pain in anyones @ss but I do feel as though I'm getting a bit of a raw deal.

I see both sides and that's what makes it tough for me. I'm sure he sees both sides as well, but again he isn't out the money I am.