Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

I agree with everything in your post minus this point.


It was never a standard to put ventilation holes in the shipping boxes for reptiles. There are many threads here that discuss why people do and don't.

When I first starting shipping about ten years ago I looked to those who have been doing this for years. Those that had twenty years in this business.

I have never put a single ventilation hole in a package. I have yet to have a DOA (knock on wood) and pray I never do. I have shipped and received hundreds of packages without incident.

The whole ventilation stuff started when now a defunct shipping company put forth a video on how to package live reptiles. It was done by one breeder who stated it was necessary. When more and more of the general hobbyist (not breeders) started shipping they looked to that video for guidance and now all of sudden you have people stating that it is a must.

It's garbage and factually not true. Go and look at any shipping thread dating back more than five years and you will not find people ventilating boxes in their tutorial.

I don't do it but also don't seal the box up like fort Knox with tape.

He says otherwise about the shipping, I'm not going to argue about that. Just that some people wouldn't agree, and I dont either. Anytime I have received a tort or turt there were no vent holes and they were fine (for me personally).

And yea I saw where the offer is moot now

"the bottom broken out"

This is what I'm talking about, not the lack of ventilation holes. I never put holes in shipping boxes and Dennis is right most experienced shippers don't either. The box either wasn't adequately taped on the bottom or was just not strong enough for the weight of the animal. And before it's said, yes it's possible the tortoise was in it's shell alive when put in the plastic bag, but it still would be the fault of the shipper.

If this does go to small claims court, the OP would probably have to accept ATC's off whether they like it or not. The times I took people to small claims court the referee usually forces the complaintant to accept whatever the defendant says for making them whole. So in all practicality you may be right about the OP accepting the offer.

Ahh.. ok, sorry didn't understand about the box. I really am not looking to argue about it, just for me what I read, I would accept it, bc no refund will be given unless court makes it happen. I'm just looking at it as, they aren't getting their money as said by ATC and best chance they had was to take the offer. I agree its all messed up, but I also think that a risk people are taking when they buy from people.

Originally Posted by allesuberschildkroten

Ahh.. ok, sorry didn't understand about the box. I really am not looking to argue about it, just for me what I read, I would accept it, bc no refund will be given unless court makes it happen. I'm just looking at it as, they aren't getting their money as said by ATC and best chance they had was to take the offer. I agree its all messed up, but I also think that a risk people are taking when they buy from people.

Ya, when I think about it from a practical point of view, I think you're right. Something would be better than nothing and as I said, the court would probably force Eric to accept the offer anyway. And that after all the time and hassle and court fees.

I was never oferred free radiated tortoise hatchlings, only them at cost. If it was truly free store credit then the hatchlIngs advertised ought to have been offered for free to cover my loss. As for the female he says died. I have documentation that indicates she arrived well and active. I never recieved any proof (pics) of the dead animal. I considered re-contacting ATC regarding an 11 inch Aldabra they have advertised to cover my loss, but at this point I really don't feel comfortable doing business with them, nor want to get into a situation where another tortoises life if put at risk during shipping. At this point I will just have to see how things shake out in court.

ErikL, do I need to go requote where he offered free hatchlings?

Sure, go ahead. I'm pretty sure it said at cost. That said, the offer was retracted by ATC. I asked for my tortoise back and the $1,000. Check I sent him immediately, however I recieved neither.

No matter how you look at it, ATC should of done better regarding outcome.
Too much bad publicity. A company doing the right thing when there is a problem to make customer happy goes way further than a smooth transaction, in terms of reviews.
$3200 is a lot, but ATC seems to be fairly large established business. If they cant afford a $3200 loss then maybe not the right business to be in. Once in a while, unfortunately, things go wrong. It is clear from postings what happened. Bad packaging caused an unfortunate death. Good packaging without crazy temperatures and tortoise would of been fine for days if delayed. I would imagine papers have been filed and will go to court. All could of been avoided and ATC reputation magnified instead of diminished if had made it right. After this many months, how many potential customers have avoided purchasing high end tortoises because of this? Hard to say. But I bet its not zero. In these days everyone does a search for reviews, especially when purchase is significant.

Originally Posted by Arizona Tortoise Compound

As to everyone that is telling me to make it right. I offered Erik money and tortoises for life at cost!!! At cost means if I hatch them then it would be free. Erik doesnt want that and only wanted 3k not the 472.56 and store credits for life.

Andrew Hermes
Arizona Tortoise Compound

Right there.... And it was retracted cause you wouldn't accept it