Livejournal Argu*ahem* Discussion

There has been a rather long and heated thread on Livejournal's "Snakecommunity" concerning some idiot who wanted to buy a 3133+ King Cobra so he could impress his friends with his long, thick and venomous snake. A few claimed he couldn't do it: I argued that with the right combination of determination and dehydrated-rock-hard stupidity, just about anyone can get his hands on just about any venomous reptile, including elapids. (Note that I don't think this is a Good Thing).

I also stated that, based on what I knew, he was likely to kill his King Cobra before it killed him. I've gathered that Kings are relatively touchy about their environment, don't respond well to stress, and frequently go off their feed. I believe that the Najas are generally a bit easier to care for -- but they still are a more demanding pet than i.e. a kingsnake or ball python regarding their humidity and heating requirements, never mind that pesky envenomation issue.

Finally, there was yet another argument on WC vs. CB Kings. The general consensus of the readers is that most Kings available in the US are WC: while you can breed Kings, most don't. I suspect this is because trying to support one 13'+ venomous snake is hassle enough, never mind two or three... but it could also be that they don't frequently breed in captivity.

Any input from people who have more experience on the subject than me (in other words, people who have ANY experience) would be greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by Rakshasanyc

There has been a rather long and heated thread on Livejournal's "Snakecommunity" concerning some idiot who wanted to buy a 3133+ King Cobra so he could impress his friends with his long, thick and venomous snake. A few claimed he couldn't do it: I argued that with the right combination of determination and dehydrated-rock-hard stupidity, just about anyone can get his hands on just about any venomous reptile, including elapids. (Note that I don't think this is a Good Thing).

It depends on what state he lives in. Some states, it would be as easy as ordering one off the Internet. Stupid, but easy. Does he even know the correct antivenom for king cobras? Hint: for most localities, it is NOT the Thai Red Cross product which is the only one that officially says "King cobra" on the label.

Without the proper medical treatment immediately, an adult king cobra bite is a death sentence. Even WITH proper medical treatment it's dicey. Any delay in applying the right protocol can mean death. The average doc in the average hospital will have absolutely no idea of the right protocol, they don't stock the antivenom, and if they do borrow some from a zoo it may be the wrong kind. King cobras are actually five species by DNA evidence, but this little factoid hasn't even made it into the taxonomic literature yet let alone the medical literature.

I also stated that, based on what I knew, he was likely to kill his King Cobra before it killed him. I've gathered that Kings are relatively touchy about their environment, don't respond well to stress, and frequently go off their feed.

Quite correct, though depending on the stupidity level of the handler they could both end up dead. It's hard to say which one would kill the other first. Personally I'd be rooting for the king. Animals are not ego toys and people who try to abuse them as such deserve what they get.

Think of kings as the most delicate rare orchid flowers that need just the right environment, humidity, temperature, food and medications to survive after being carelessly dug up and knocked around during shipping to the point that most of them are wilting and full of parasites. It can take a lot of skilled, hands on, tender loving care to make sure they survive and acclimate.

I believe that the Najas are generally a bit easier to care for -- but they still are a more demanding pet than i.e. a kingsnake or ball python regarding their humidity and heating requirements, never mind that pesky envenomation issue.

Cobra husbandry requirements are no more complicated than colubrid husbandry requirements, except for the abovementioned minor little issue.

For me it's just a routine chore to nab a cobra by the tail and evict it from its cage into a safety bin for routine cleaning and cage maintenance. Catching it up for veterinary exam and treatment is also something I can go in and do without really thinking twice about it. If a snake sneezes funny, it's going to be in my hand with a speculum in its mouth in short order. But a handler who doesn't have that level of confidence cannot maintain a good standard of care for that animal.

Finally, there was yet another argument on WC vs. CB Kings. The general consensus of the readers is that most Kings available in the US are WC: while you can breed Kings, most don't. I suspect this is because trying to support one 13'+ venomous snake is hassle enough, never mind two or three... but it could also be that they don't frequently breed in captivity.

I do breed kings, but not at my house - mine go out on loan to the local Serpentarium which has a gigantic breeding enclosure sufficient for two adult kings. And no, I will NOT sell any offspring to anyone who isn't a proper institution and/or personally known to me as being able to give a high standard of care.

Post me a link there and I might hop on board.

Keeping Naja's is not that difficult at all. For that matter most reptiles if you understand thier native lands climate and geography is rather simple. Naja Kaouthia {Monacle Cobra} I keep in a 6 foot vision with 3 inches of cypress mulch and artifical plants and logs. Two water bowls one directly under a 100 watt light to keep up the humidity the other a little off for drinking. The hide box is in the far corner and completely burried in cypress mulch with lots of plants around it anchored to the cage{ cobras are decorations removal experts} I mist the cage lightly once a week and feed them twice a week with 6 mice at each feeding. The Temp and humidity I keep on par with what can be found through thier home range.

My Pallida I have set up much more dry cage. cypress mulch for substrate and a water dish with rock caves for hide spots as they are from a much more arrid area and the temp stays a little higher as well with no misting feeding is 2 mice every 5 days.

The Egyptian cobras are about the middle of the spectrum set up in 4 foot cages with 3 inches of mulch as the love to burrow they seldome are in the hide box. A single water dish and misting them about 1 time every 2 weeks feeding is the same for them as the Monacle Cobras but humidty is a little lower.

Cobras really are simple to keep if you take the effort to care for them properly just like any other snake. I think nothing of getting them out and putting them in a bin for cleaning the cage its another snake that has to have its cage cleaned. So long as safe protocals are used to avoid envenomation they are no more difficult then a cornsnake to care for.

I as well would be interested in the conversation you brought up could you post a link?

Without committing myself to write a long winded post, I'll try my best to voice my opinion. Scott and Tanith did a fine job themeselves of diving into details.

O. hannah is CERTAINLY a species reserved for ADVANCED ELAPID KEEPERS! Their husbandry requirements are not the hard part, it's the sheer job of having to deal with a 15 ft. venomous reptile that is the hard part. They are incredibly intelligent (for snakes), as well as incredibly delicate...as Tanith mentioned, it'd be hard to determine who would kill who first, but I'd be rooting for the king as well. The only problem is that it in turn would most likely be destroyed if such a situation happened. There is no such thing as a good outcome when an inexperienced person gets an extremely dangerous animal such as a king cobra. Especially when said person's motivation is "to be cool" for his friends...He's much more likely to "be dead" for his friends (as well as possibly killing them as well). Assuming he avoids being bitten, he is likely to kill the snake due to neglect (I'm sure once he sees the size, power, and speed of an adult king cobra, he'll quickly cower and leave the snake to die in it's cage...assuming he even gets it in there without being bitten). I sincerely hope (for his and for all other keepers' sakes!) that this guy is just a troll stirring up controversy. If not, I'm glad I don't live in his state...I hope at least.

I said I wouldn't make this long winded, but I guess I lied...