Cindy Chicvara -aka- Dragonlady58 - take a pass!

Chuck I do feel bad for this situation but there is one thing that caught my eye that just seems like blatent atagonism towards her and here it is:

You're entitled to your refund so request it through PayPal and I'll issue it when I find the time for you. Sorry, but you're now on my very back burner. If you would have been decent, even slightly courteous to me, you wouldn't have have to wait for a thing and have my full cooperation.

If you are going to refund her money and things are going so poorly you should issue the refund and be done with it. Wouldn't that be quicker?

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

Chuck,
Here (and this is strictly my opinion) is where I feel things went wrong.

You told Cindy on 12/28/05 (after previous delays) that you were rescheduling the shipment for 1/2/06. You also told her that if UPS did not make the pickup on 1/2/06, that you would drive the animals to the UPS hub and personally make the shipment.

Mike....we sent her emails informing her of the storm and the delay it caused, but they bounced back as undeliverable. You'll have to clarify with her why she didnt get our emails. It was just bad luck with the storm causing an even further delay. Crap happens, but we werent leaving her high and dry.

Todays Friday and if took a quick pic of the frozen wonderland around me you'd see that I couldnt even ship the turtles out today if I wanted to. Holidays and the elements are to blame here. Not communication. Other sellers would tell her tough luck and that the turtles are hers to keep and that they reserve the right to postpone shipping without any prior notice when the weather suddenly changes. I've done enough business right here to know that that practice is commonly used. No refund or belly aching about it. You'd have to be crazy to find fault with a seller for not shipping in severe weather.

Regardless of all this...whether we both had esp and were in contact 24/7....it wouldnt have stopped this woman from popping her top. I would have just heard it instead of reading it.

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

I think that any reasonable person would assume that either the shipment would be picked up by UPS on 1/2/06 or be hand delivered by you on 1/3/06.
Without providing any communication to Cindy and based on the previous delays, I don't feel that she was out of line on 1/4/06 with her email regarding the status of her turtles.

Sorry Mike....I dont see it that way. Nobody gets away with that saying stupid stuff like she did to me. Not by accident, not even in jest.

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

Granted, she should not have threatened your Paypal account in her email, but I really think that you over-reacted. Especially since, this shipment had already experienced delays.

Either she had every right to respond to me the way she did or she didnt. Which is it? I didnt start this thread to see who could be right or wrong mind you. Because once you threaten a person under any circumstance your automatically wrong. That is not the way to start an email and not the way to good communication.

You make it sound like I'm the exception to how she treats people. I'm sorry to disagree. You might think she's a nice lady that can get uptight, but I think she's an uptight lady that can be nice if she wants.

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

I can only assume that the two of you had not done any business together in the past, so I can understand that she might think that you were now stalling her.

You mean she didnt view my feedback? Or see that she sent payment to a verified business premiere PayPal account member with over a 1000 transactions? Or that she didnt utilize a simple search engine using my name and or business name? She would have found this place and others I've established a positive trader rating on.

Stall? When have you ever been emailed as many times by a seller offering you a refund, TWICE, if you werent happy with the delay?

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

Chuck, I and most everyone else here knows that you are a good guy in the business. But given the circumstances, I can understand Cindy's apprehension.

Well thank you Mike. I do feel the same about you.

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

On a sidenote, Cindy also made a purchase from me on Reptibid on 12/19/05. As a matter of fact, she purchased a copy of The Box Turtle Manual. It would seem that she had every intention of providing for these animals.

Good intentions aside, she should have emailed me with a simple choice....provide the refund or send the animals. Everything she had to say was rude and insulting. She has already admitted to "jumping the gun". She admitted she was wrong, and then continued to insult me.

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

Our transaction was flawless and I found her to be very charming.

So you want my permission to date her or something? Come on Mike, you sent her a freeking paper back book so fast she probably read the damn thing the same day you mailed it. Where talking about a delay here due to the holidays involving live animals. Youre situation to mine is apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

Perhaps, both you and her could back up and take a second look at this and make this a successful transaction after all.

Not a chance. She'll have a refund just as soon as she requests one through PayPal.

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

If I can help in any way - just ask.

You're a good guy and I know you'd help me on a moments notice if you could. I'd do the same for you and I truly appreciate your offer.

Do you like box turtles?

Originally Posted by Rich Z

This year was about a worst case scenario with the official Christmas and New Year holiday falling on a Monday

I hear that. Never again for me.

Originally Posted by connorrm

Chuck I do feel bad for this situation but there is one thing that caught my eye that just seems like blatent atagonism towards her and here it is:

I wasnt antagonizing her or baiting her into further discussion at all. Her email addy is blocked from our account after our last reply we sent. We dont want to hear back from her again. My email was to tell her off and to instruct her how she could now go about obtaining her refund.

I'm actually glad you brought this up. I dont want anyone to think that I would handle them any differently if they took such a foolish liberty with me.

Originally Posted by connorrm

If you are going to refund her money and things are going so poorly you should issue the refund and be done with it. Wouldn't that be quicker?

She can have her refund when she requests it through PayPal. She don't need me to file a claim with them. When I am notified by PayPal to the open dispute I'll issue the refund just as soon as I get around to it. PayPal offers 10 days to comply, I believe. That might just be how long it will take her to get anything. Thats the price. She's on her own to do the leg work I could have done in seconds had I received a simple and decent request.

Bottom line... in case you skimmed through the above posts.....email me with any stupid crap like this woman did and my cooperation in any matter is out the window. I don't subscribe to the theory that if your right cheek gets smacked you offer the other side. In my position, I just don't need to.

Chuck,
You have a valid point there. All I was saying is why wait for her to file the claim? Just send it to her and be done with it. I hope you don't think that I was trying to say you were keeping her money. I just don't understand why you would want to wait for the claim to be made with paypal?

Originally Posted by critical bill

She can have her refund when she requests it through PayPal. She don't need me to file a claim with them. When I am notified by PayPal to the open dispute I'll issue the refund just as soon as I get around to it. PayPal offers 10 days to comply, I believe. That might just be how long it will take her to get anything. Thats the price. She's on her own to do the leg work I could have done in seconds had I received a simple and decent request.

Bottom line... in case you skimmed through the above posts.....email me with any stupid crap like this woman did and my cooperation in any matter is out the window. I don't subscribe to the theory that if your right cheek gets smacked you offer the other side. In my position, I just don't need to.

Chuck

Two rules that i follow religiously in all customer related belligerent situations.

1.) If someone inquires about an animal and is rude, insulting or just plain ignorant I have one response "No Thanks, but thank you for the inquiry" It defuses all problems before they escalate.

2.) If someone is getting difficult during an actual sale transaction, "I don't feel that I am going to be able to make you happy and I am immediately refunding your money. Sorry this transaction did not work out." That is followed by an immediate refund. Again, an immediate end to all problems.

The mistake you are taking here is in taking this personally. You don't know this person from Adam but you let her force you into an angry and unprofessional response. As Mike stated earlier.....you are one of the good guys. It is not worth loosing your cool over. Making her wait for the refund is just bad business. Refund and be done with her.

It's just business...it's nothing personal

Chuck,
The only purpose of my post was to try and facilitate a reconciliation between you and Cindy. I know you by reputation and Cindy from a business dealing and I had hoped that this was just a misunderstanding between you and could be resolved.

It's obvious that you do not want anything else to do with this transaction.

Although she was aggressive towards you in her email of 1/4/06, you stated in you're first response that you had no contact with her after the 28th or before the 4th:

No, I don't believe there was. We put in a full day Friday 12/29 without hearing back from her, and a half day Saturday 12/30 with frequent checks at home to see if she responded back....just in case.

I informed her by email on 12/28 the following:

"I spoke with a rep at UPS and this delay is only because of the holiday schedule and will resume to normal pickup and delivery in our area on Jan.2, 2006."

Given that fact, from her point of view, she would have thought that the animals were being shipped on the 2nd, or at least on the 3rd. Of course we know that they were not and could not have been because of the weather. But because she had not received notification from you (I'm still unclear as to whether there were no emails sent or that they were and bounced back) what was she to think?

At this point, I think everyone will agree that you should simply refund her money and move on.

Making her jump through hoops to receive her refund is petty, and to be quite honest, beneath you.

I completely understand your anger, but you are the professional in this transaction. You will be much better served by taking the high road and just moving on.

I have to agree with John and Mike, Chuck. Just refund the money and move on. You have absolutely nothing to gain by doing it otherwise.

Originally Posted by Suncoast Herpetological

Chuck
The mistake you are taking here is in taking this personally. You don't know this person from Adam but you let her force you into an angry and unprofessional response. As Mike stated earlier.....you are one of the good guys. It is not worth loosing your cool over. Making her wait for the refund is just bad business. Refund and be done with her.

It's just business...it's nothing personal

I'm not making her wait at all John. I no longer wish to communicate with her because twice she has exaggerated the truth, implied I was a deadbeat, and threatened me for truly no reason whatsoever. If she wants the refund she'll have to request it the same way she sent it. Through PayPal. Again, I could intervene, bypass all the waiting, but that consideration went out the window.

Honestly....its not like she's choking on a chicken bone and I'm the only one around who knows how to do the hineylick(sp?) maneuver. PayPal can help her in my absence and I will cooperate with PayPal.

I'll also add that I have no requirement that a customer must ask me nicely for a refund if they want one. I'm not one of those guys that will make you say "pretty please with sugar on top". Nope....not me at all. I have had a few requests in my time for a refund and most start off with..."please send me a refund" or even "send me a refund NOW". But rarely do I ever receive a refund request that starts with "if you want to keep your PayPal account, send me my refund now". Thats not a request, John, thats a threat. A silly one yes, but one that she apologized for and then went on to basically insult me in some other form.

Thank You for your tips though, John, I do appreciate them.

Chuck

No contact with her is necessary. Simply go to PayPal and reverse the transaction.....end of problem.