The Disturbing Trend of Price Slashing in the reptile hobby/industry

I've noticed an alarming trend lately, that being breeders and private parties selling their reptiles WELL BELOW market value.
And the domino effect, of other people seeing the price drop and adjusting their price even LOWER. This is good news for the folks in society who want to buy snake type X, but dont have the money, but for those that put up the money in volume to invest in a rare snake...its a disaster. I myself have succumbed to this same problem, felt empty inside as I watched snakes march out my door, snakes that I have had kept for a year or more and sold them for less than I paid for them. I say all this to let you know its affected me too.

What do you think?
Yes, we can talk market value and supply and demand, but what I am talking about is people just dumping the prices.Yes, its theirs and they can do with it what they want. But...it seems that it is just happening wholesale nowadays......or is it just my perception?

I appreciate your feedback...everyone join in..


FRED ALBURY

AZTEC REPTILES

Wouldn't this subject be more appropriate in the General Business Discussions forum?? Just a thought.

Jason Brennan

Dang Fred
Jason got you before me, he is right , this would be more appropriate in the discussion end of this site and I bet some topic related replies will come
peace

Coming from the hobbyist's point of view I have to say it's great. Big breeders have for years been getting top dollar (sometimes more than fair) for their animals. Now because of so many people are breeding a buyer can shop around and get a competitive price for a type of animal that they like. I'm sorry if anyone is losing money on animals they breed and care for but I didnt hear any complaining when you were coming out on the better end!? Looks like the elitist's will have to start mingling with the common folk.

Tom Eason

Fred, There have been lots of cbb baby retfs dumped on the market for less than it costs to raise them to a safe selling size. These guys now having a little cash in their pocket and realizing that its not profitable will probobly not produce them agian. What a shame. Hank

well, my thoughts are that maybe some people overpaid in the first place and now they are finding that the market wont support their overpayment. expectations are a b____ sometimes. basically, when you are working with these animals for money, you have to expect that you're going to lose on occasion and that you are going to win on occasion. myself for example, (not that i'm working with my animals for money) when i've sold something because i wanted to focus in a different direction, i've made a profit off of the original purchase price about half of the time. but when you factor in feeding, housing, electricity, water, etc... i'm far from breaking even. fred, the animals you have been posting for sale (the mad ground boa and the stripe pair come to mind) are beautiful, but maybe you overpaid for them expecting a higher return than what was realistic. i could be wrong, but that seems to be what the market is telling me. personally given the price, i don't see why the mad ground boa hasn't been sold and having seen the price on your stripe pair drop to $1000, i don't see why they haven't sold (except maybe some don't think the stripes are genetic and therefore aren't worth the money). i don't know man, i don't know what to say...
as far as others dumping their prices, that to me is, as you stated already, supply and demand. either supply is too great, or demand is not great enough. either way, the dropping of the price, at times drastically, is just the market evening itself out. i think that with the explosive growth of this hobby, you're going to be seeing it a lot more across all species because not only do you have the "big breeders" breeding in mass quantities, you have importers, hobbyist/breeders, and hobbyists contributing to the total number of animals out there. oversaturation = lower prices.
ok, i'm repeating myself now and getting no further in my explanation. and it's time to eat.
later

I do not think it has anything to do with being an elitist vs common folk. I agree with Fred, and have been thinking about making a post like this for awhile. It is about common business sense and care for the animals.
My question to the hobbiest dumping off stock is...why dump stock when you can keep the market ingretity of an animal by just doing some more wholesaling? You dont have to deal with a bunch of buyer inquiries, and you relieve yourself of a large number all at once. Meanwhile, you can keep a few to sell at full retail price.

Most newcomers and hobbiests complain that they do not have the "big name" so they cannot sell for the top dollar. That is true, but they needed to have thought of this before out-of-nowhere breeding so many animals at once and having no way to sell them all. It is called planning. What happens when this newcomer or no-name is in the business for a few years, has developed a name, but has been partially responsible for lowering the value of an animal that they are now trying to make some sort of a living at breeding. That is the path that many take. The bottom line is that it is short term thinking and can wind up hurting them in the future seasons. Not to mention, it is an easy way to alienate yourself from fellow breeders and collegues.
For example, we used to wholesale everything. Each year a little less. This year, even though we have decent publicity, we still wholesale a lot. Just to keep the load light and market integrity up.

Here are some big problems with the low pricing...
The Europeans already criticize the American markets for having such low prices that two things happen:

A. Animals for sale become disposable pets. It is cheaper to buy a new one than care properly for the original one.

B. The breeders/dealers have to cut corners so much to keep the price down that the health of the animals are greatly comprimised. And animals are being sold younger and younger to uninformed buyers (many sent to their death).

These things lead to a lot of the complaints that groups such as the HSUS has against the reptile market.

Keep prices stable, breeders/dealers can concentrate more and more on health and well being. Quality stays high. In this case price often has a direct correlation to quality. As prices get lower and lower, breeders are not even able to cover feeding costs beyond the first couple weeks after hatching!

I've also noticed that most of the people that want to buy for cheap, have plans to breed in the future. Try calculating breeding costs before complaining about price.... And then figure out what you will want for your offspring.

Just my thoughts.
Dana

bottom line, breeding animals for a living = taking a chance. sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't.
oh, and from what i've heard, one should not breed leopard gecko morphs or colubrids with the hopes of retiring on the income. i know that and i don't even have any interest in those animals, so why don't breeders understand that? quit complaining that the market didn't hold up to your expectations.

however, i do agree that it is indeed sad that people look at their pets as disposable because they are so cheap. however, given the attitudes of americans, breeders should have expected that and the people to blame are the breeders, not the market. they should take into consideration the effects of their decisions to breed certain animals with certain market values before breeding them. or, be more selective about who you sell to. basically, if you're concerned about the animals you sell and don't want them to end up dying in the (lack of) care provided by some random person, then don't wholesale them because you never know where they are going after you sell them to a wholesaler. not that you have much insight as to where they go after you sell them to a hobbyist, but at least it's less likely to end up in the hands of someone who can't or wont care for it. why? because you sold it and you should have gotten a good feel for the person you sold it to.

i'm not saying anyone involved in this thread is guilty of anything, just a general observation and rant.
jb

Fred.
Heck man look at what you can buy leopard geckos for
Look at what you can buy corn lots for
look at what you can buy some spiders for
It is no longer a sellers market , its a buyers market[ woe be to the poor animals that eventually get disgarded] and while that may be good for Joe consumer its bad for Joe reptile
If you have the only one or one of a few you might get ahead for a bit and then Joe consumer eventually takes over
You will find some stores that thrive and some people that get by on the good name they have , these are the ones to buy from
My prices are fair to high and there they will remain 'oh well' , what did people used to say and believe
'its all about quality not quantity'

perfect illustration of what i'm talking about.
click here
see, even here, market prices have dropped "to about half" of what they used to be because of quantity. it's just a fact of life.

and i agree with john, it should be about quality, not quantity. that's why in the boa world, guys like futo, tudehope, etc.. fetch higher prices than the others. quality. their names are synonymous with it. so, they do get more for their animals.
anyway, think i made my point a long time ago. i'm done.
jb