Jasonturtles954... Really ?

The problem lies in removal of the turtle from the wild. Perhaps he keeps it? Perhaps he sells it? Perhaps he eats it? Doesn't matter! The wild population has suffered a loss. I am well aware of the fact that wc animals are bought and sold for the pet trade. The impact of the removal of some types of turtles in Florida will be minimal. But the removal of one specimen of others could be devastating.

Florida has laws about possession and collection of some types of turtles. Did his ad indicate that he was not interested in buying those? To the ordinary person... a sea turtle is an aquatic turtle.. did his ad indicate that he is not interested in those?

In summary, you have accurately indicated that we do not know of "Jason's" intentions... but we do know that he solicited the removal of "wild turtles" without any restrictions on type.. protected or not.

Originally Posted by flavomarginata

we do not know of "Jason's" intentions...

Maybe it would have been more productive to contact him privately and ask about his intentions.
I am not minimizing the possible outcomes from a blanket invitation to sell wc turtles, but there is always the chance that he might have been receptive and listened to a pm similar to your well thought out post, above.

I have no great concern with limited and responsible collection, especially to establish a new founder population.

However, his one ad is an attempt to commit an illegal sale and the other is probably, although may not be *if* he has authorization to possess two AS, illegal. I find the likelihood of authorization unlikely for a person who asks how to "make" albinos.

I do not even have a personal issue with the direct nature of that instance of illegality. However, as a lifetime chelonian enthusiast, breeder, and what have you, I would like to prevent further restrictions or public offenses (and reactions) that could serve to harm others like myself.

Maybe it would have been.. maybe not??? I was really hoping that Fauna Classifieds would intervene and remove the solicitation. To put the focus on me..whether I am male or female... why did i post on BOI?, am I anti pet trade?... is, quite frankly, misguided. I believe the focus should be on whether or not this website is going to give a voice to those who are possibly soliciting a wildlife crime. To put an ad on here seeking wc turtles, without qualifying it to include only legally captured/collected specimens is simply irresponsible... IN MY OPINION!

Agreed! His ad was not a solicitation for limited and responsible collection! It said, "Bring me a turtle, I give you money!" Even if he had said, "please make yourself familiar with Florida's wildlife laws," the tone of his ad would have been dramatically different.

And really folks, not to get "preachy," BUT this type of irresponsible activity is exactly what is going to lead to the downfall of the entire pet industry. If we cannot police ourselves... someone (legislatures) is going to step in and make laws that will probably be detrimental to all of us. The days of sitting back and hoping all is well is over! Why do you think the reptile industry is constantly on the "defense" when it comes to "new laws?" Could it be because, for too long, we have sat back and not taken the action necessary to demonstrate we can take care of ourselves? JUST MY OPINION

Originally Posted by flavomarginata

and to Jeff Pfieffer... never known a female named "Ray." And just because it is "not illegal"... doesn't mean it should be done or encouraged.

Sorry about that. I'm getting old I guess, LOL!

Originally Posted by flavomarginata

Agreed! His ad was not a solicitation for limited and responsible collection! It said, "Bring me a turtle, I give you money!" Even if he had said, "please make yourself familiar with Florida's wildlife laws," the tone of his ad would have been dramatically different.

And really folks, not to get "preachy," BUT this type of irresponsible activity is exactly what is going to lead to the downfall of the entire pet industry. If we cannot police ourselves... someone (legislatures) is going to step in and make laws that will probably be detrimental to all of us. The days of sitting back and hoping all is well is over! Why do you think the reptile industry is constantly on the "defense" when it comes to "new laws?" Could it be because, for too long, we have sat back and not taken the action necessary to demonstrate we can take care of ourselves? JUST MY OPINION

How about the stuff that is BLATANTLY illegal but already out of control. Do you really think the thousand of baby turtles sold are all for education or scientific purposes? How about all the Australian reptiles in this country that came here illegally after being smuggled into and laundered through Germany? How about all the Indonesian reptiles for sale as Farm bred that have actually come straight from the jungle despite their law against exporting wild caught animals? It's not clear whether he was asking people to break the law or was breaking the law himself. Frankly, unless it's clear he was, the site has no good cause to take down his ads or refuse to post them. You feeling it's not right is not a good reason. One of the problems with this country is people insisting everyone have the same "values" when everyone has a right to their own opinion.

I maintain.. he asked for people to bring him turtles (no limit on numbers... no limit on types). Had he simply limited his request to "legally captured" and or "legally possessed, " his ad would be so much different. I am entitled to my opinion.. you are entitled to yours. POTENTIALLY, he was asking people to bring him turtles in violation of the law, that is what I object to! Did he put a limit on the type of turtle?

You can have your values... I can have mine. I am not attacking your values, but you are clearly attacking mine. I wont attack you because you think I am out of line. Perhaps it is simply a matter as to how we perceive the posting?

Baby turtles; Australian reptiles; Indonesian reptiles ??? Yep, problems exist. But using your logic, we should just turn our heads because we each have different values and the desire to homogenize them is problematic. ???

Looks like a reminder needs to be posted in case anyone missed it the first time around...

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Post after post expressing disapproval is not of value to the thread. In fact, it is disruptive and off topic when continued.
Please keep posts relevant to the subject of the thread: Jasonturtles954

Originally Posted by flavomarginata

I was really hoping that Fauna Classifieds would intervene and remove the solicitation.

No, sorry. We remove posts/ads/members that violate rules. We do not 'police' the ads for legality or ethical reasons. It is up to the reader/seller/buyer to make the best informed decision they can before entering a business arrangement with another party. That is what the BOI is for, to be 'your' tool in helping decide if you want to do business with another person/party/etc. To avoid this continuing to go off topic, there are threads in the feedback forum about these issues, for instance here:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=283253
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=397638

thank you

I'm also going to intervene, but on the other sideline discussion (I had included this in an earlier post; but decided to wait until it became an issue). The BOI is not the place for a prolonged debate/discussion on the capture of wild turtles. Feel free to discuss that, and all the pros, cons, ethical issues, and legalities, in an appropriate discussion area.