Matthew @ Monster Cages-BAD GUY

Ok, I understand.
What is the reason given for the cages not being completed?

Matt, How can a storage fee be imposed on something that isn't finished.
Why isn't her order finished?

Dennis, there are 12 cages on the original order. Four 4-footers, four 6-footers and four 8-footers. The 4-footers and the 6-footers are completed...but the 8-footers have been sitting for months. He told me that they were not worked on because he was waiting for me to make up my mind. But then he tells me that I am responsible for all the cages and all the shipping (4-5 months into this). I am perfectly content with taking a portion of the cages....but I only want him to withhold enough of the cages to cover shipping. Which he told me 5 months ago, could not happen. So we were at an impass because he didn't want hold back any of the cages to cover shipping on the remainder. Now he is willing to do that, but he is still wanting to hold back cages that I paid a significantly higher amount for than the $1300 shipping quote.

kelly, my question is, what was the original agreed upon price with shipping? im guessing the cages were paid in full before he started building them? that seems to be standard protocol. was there an original agreed upon amount for shipping and do you have that in an email. have you paid the original amount for shipping at this point, or did you pay as he shipped them?
i am also guessing that you agreed on 6-8 weeks and not nine months, are your cages done now, or are they still incomplete.
any time i have bought cages i get an email stating lead time, total for cages and shipping. that should be binding between you and the manufacturer. if you have these things and matt didnt hold up to his end of the deal, the only responsible party for these mistakes is him. storage fees are ludicriss. if you have an email stating the original terms and costs, that would be a good one to post.

There has to be some middle ground to work this out. As I understand it, The order wasn’t finished in eight weeks, as you believed it would be. At 16 weeks you decided you weren’t going to wait any longer and he already completed most of your order. He then stopped work on the rest of the order because you weren’t willing to pay anymore for shipping and wanted to use some of the funds sent for the caging for the shipping cost. You believe you had waited enough. As you state he is willing to use some of the caging to pay for shipping but you disagree which cages should be used to fund the shipping. Are the uncompleted cages the ones you want to receive?
Matt, When would have the other cages been done if the deal had proceeded as planned?
It would be very helpful to see the emails. If you could just cut and paste them all.

Well here is my side of the story and how things have gone.



First off the original order came in and I told her what approximate shipping charges would be. I also gave her 4 FREE 4 foot cages on this order for prompt payment.



What she failed to mention that she told me to hold off on building for a bit because they were redoing the flooring in their house and she wasn't’t ready.

This was before the 8 week completion date.

We waited to hear back from her to tell us when she was ready for them. Some time passed and I contacted her and asked how things were going and that her cages were coming along fine and that I wanted to know when she would be ready for them.

She then said that she needed more time because her house still wasn't finished. I told her to let me know when things were ready and then we could finish it up.

More time passed and we heard nothing until she e-mailed saying she didn't want any of the caging because she was getting divorced and couldn't afford the shipping and then i tried to work with her by MENTIONING to her that a Reptile Store (Twin Cities Reptile in St. Paul, MN) owned by Bruce Delles would be able to sell the cages for her and she could have the balance but there was talk of the 20% restocking.

I never did load the cages up or take them anywhere. I did make sure Bruce was OK with it and mentioned to her that he was willing if that is what she wanted to do.



I have been trying to work with her the whole time not just now. here is what happened with things and i just reminded her of this yesterday and she didn't deny that is how things went.



at one point you told me to not worry and slow production cause your floor wasn't done
and then your house wasn't ready
and then you were getting divorce and to just sell everything
then you wanted all the cages but the eights
then you wanted all the cages and a couple of the eights but couldn't figure out which ones you wanted
then you wanted the cages and only a couple sixes and a couple eights
now you want them all minus one six and one eight.



and to refund the difference and cover all the shipping based on those different scenarios and I told her that i can't do that cause most of her cages are very very custom cages and they would be hard for me to resell and i couldn't use them.

At one point i did even offer to buy some or all of them from her all if she would take payments and then i would try to have the Twin Cities Reptile sell them



I have no problem finishing the 8 footers. It is correct that they are not done, but the pieces for them have been cut and routed and just need to be welded, supports in the ceiling and doors and hardware done and that i can't refund on something that has already been customized for her order.



I have no problem getting them done and putting extra time in to get them done but she said she refused to pay the shipping on them because she can't afford them. The shipping was NEVER in the price of this project and she knew it was extra and that the order did change when i first gave her an estimate and not to mention the time delays on her part and partially on mine based on what she was telling and shipping has gone through the roof based on fuel surcharges and other stuff. Just ask any shipping person if rates haven't gone up a great deal just like gas has gone up a great deal. No shipping company will lock in rates further than 1 week or two out.



I have also offered to put her in contact with our shipping logistics company so she could still get our discount and pay them directly instead of going through us, otherwise shipping would be 62% more based on that being our discount with our carriers.




I have been trying to figure this out and work with her on things but with how custom everything is would make it hard for anyone to buy these and I can post the specifics of the order to show how different the sizes actually are. I have no intent on ripping her off or not sending her cages but she is not giving the full story and leaving key things out. I intend on getting the eight footers completed for her and will expect her to assume the shipping costs which like i said can be paid directly to the shipping company if that is the issue or she can set up shipping on her end if she prefers.



Thanks
Matthew Martin

So Kelly, did you stall the shipping out of the cages as Matt has stated? This is good, leave out vital information, like you asked him not to ship out at 8 weeks because you were not ready for them! Then run around changing your mind so he has no idea what you want!

Let's not make any accusations until we hear her response. Matt, do you have any emails between you two that proves she couldn't make up her mind?

Matt,
No doubt there were some delays that Kelly is responsible for. This looks like it could be a real mess if every detail is attempted to be sorted out as well. It appears that it has come down to the money for shipping, and whether there is any money at all for it, or for the $600-800 estimate, or for the actual total which is now near $1300. While Kelly is responsible for added costs due to her delays in being able to receive the cages, a court would also hold you responsible for the original estimate on shipping as you had a "good faith" obligation there. If you had said "likely $600-800, but possibly up to $1500" for instance, it would be different. A court would also not support an "all or nothing" approach since both entities were unable to perform as to the original agreement, and would seek a fair compromise. A possible solution would be to hold back some of the cages to sell to cover the shipping of the rest, as Kelly suggested. Most entities here would agree what you may not be able to sell them for what was originally paid since they are custom, and that their value is diminished, and that you may need to hold back more than Kelly suggested. I suggest withholding enough of the cages for resale to guarantee your being compensated for shipping. Due to the mistakes on both sides, a court would not rule the cages as "abandoned", allowing you to sell them elsewhere, with Kelly having to absorb all of the loss. I really believe that would be a mistake, and cost you more than other solutions in the end. Ship a reasonable amount, and then settle up once the cages held back to cover shipping are sold. At least you may be able to get a potential $6000 - $7300 dispute down to a few hundred dollars.

Originally Posted by PythonGuy

Let's not make any accusations until we hear her response. Matt, do you have any emails between you two that proves she couldn't make up her mind?

As of this point, accusations are all we really have. Kelly has stalled because of her divorce, but did she stall because of other things that she has not come forward with?

Jim, good post.

Okay I need to step away from the keyboard, I am in a bad mood today and cannot see things clearly.

Okay, here goes....this is going to be long. I would like to cut and paste all e-mails, but without the dates, it wouldn't seem relavent. I have the dates in the headers, but when I try to cut and paste all the headers too, it ends up being very long.

First off the original order came in and I told her what approximate shipping charges would be. I also gave her 4 FREE 4 foot cages on this order for prompt payment.

This is not true. He gave me 2 free 4 foot cages. Here is the e-mail to prove that:

KAJ" <guinnyone@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Did you get.....?
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:16:30 -0600

if you could get the balance of the order to us we could do up 2 48"x30"x18" cages for free if you wanted and then good price on the other two
just trying to finance a really nice boa for this breeding season and before plastic goes up again

www.monster-cages.com

Your source for YOUR strongest cages customized just for you.

507-474-0172 Home
507-313-3734 Cell
507-474-4253 Shop

Thanks Matthew
Monster Cages

new price of order
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:46:17 -0600

Total from before $4790 + shipping

(2) 24 light fixtures $25 each or $50 both
(2) incadescent light fixtures $10 each or $20 both

(4) 48"x 30"x18" $275 each or $550/ all with discount of $550 for two free cages
(4) 18" light $15 each or $60/all
(3) Incandescent light fixture $10 each or 30/all

NEW total $5450 + shipping

I need to go back and look up exactly how much money I sent him because I know it was more than this.

What she failed to mention that she told me to hold off on building for a bit because they were redoing the flooring in their house and she wasn't’t ready.

Not entirely true. I told him to take his time (as mentioned in above postings). I wanted them done correctly, but I could have put them in the garage at any time.

Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:35:31 -0800 (PST)
From: "KAJ" <guinnyone@sbcglobal.net> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: hey
To: "Monster Cages" <martin01@hbci.com>

That is fine. I appreciate it, they do need to be very strong. Just keep me informed. I haven't gotten the flooring replaced yet, so it is alright to wait until all the cages are done to be shipped at once. Write me in a couple weeks and let me know of the progress :0) Kelly

This was half way through March....I had been checking in with him every week or two weeks. I didn't want to sound like a complete whip-cracking witch...but I did want them done in a timely matter still. However, they were still not even close to being done and this was 12 weeks later.

Matt mentions a lot of waiting....there was waiting. Because I was trying to come up with things mid-April (16 weeks in) that we could reach an agreement on. There seemed to be nothing that was "can do".

I never did load the cages up or take them anywhere. I did make sure Bruce was OK with it and mentioned to her that he was willing if that is what she wanted to do.

Tue, 23 May 2006 13:31:52 -0500

I had them at one point loaded and ready to go to a reptile store on consignment with him cause you said you wanted to sell them, find another cage company to do that on my nickel getting them up there and stuff.

Thanks
Matthew
Monster Cages
www.monster-cages.com

507-474-0172
507-313-3734 Cell

YOUR source for the strongest and most custom
cage company around.

As for making up my mind....I knew what I wanted....but everything I suggested was "not possible" or couldn't be done on his end. Yes, there have been quite a variety of suggestions. But I was trying to come up with solutions that we could both be comfortable with. The time spent hashing this out started after 16 weeks, when I was looking at a divorce and finally gave up and e-mailed, asking if the cages had even been completed, and they had not. I did e-mail at one point and told him he could make payments back to me if that was what it took...but didn't seem like that was going to work either. I know what I want and what I need....but we have fiddling around with numbers now for the past couple days. He did originally tell me it was all or nothing and there was NO WAY he was going to hold back cages to cover the shipping costs. This has only been quite recently that he agreed to do so.