IBD Allen belcher/Big daddys wholesale

Obviously, he not only doesn't care about his customers, he doesn't care about the animal either....in the condition that poor snake is in, the stress of shipping may just do him in.

What a loser.

Glad you're taking good care of the poor critter though Jon....he still seem to be doing OK?

Well, he is still with us so everything seems ok. I am feeding him tonight with the glucose injected mice and he also gets his baytril tonight. He still doesn't move about the cage much but when I check on him and just rub his side, he moves and it seems like he is moving a little better.

He should be pushing 4 months soon and from what I have read and heard, IBD should have done him in by his 4 month birthday so we'll see.

Jon

Does anyone know how long a python can carry this disease without signs. I know that boas are different, and can carry it for a while, but lets say an infected animal comes in contact with one that is not infected. How long before the signs would show up. Can it be a week, a month, 6 months??? I have no animals that I would be worried, about, but just for future reference.

I just read thru the whole post, and a lot of you guys brought up some great points, between shows, ks(the people there are completely ridiculous to deal with IMO) and some of these dealers. Shows just seem like breeding grounds for disease, to much cross contamination. As much as rubber gloves look awful, and I cant stand them, I think all vendors should have them and enforce them being used as well as the sanitizer.

I also hope everything works out well for you and your spider Jon, as well as the rest of your collection. I have had scares in the past with losing snakes, and it is awful to sit there and wait and wait, with nothing you can really do. Keep your head up though, you have already proven that you have done as much as can be done, and a lot more than many people would do. If only everyone could take this kind of care of their animals we would never be in situations like this. To many people to focused on what they can make off their animals, and dont care enough about the animals. I personally am getting out of reptiles for a while due to my financial situation, because I just dont have the money anymore to care for them as they should be cared for. If something were to happen I cant afford vet bills ect, and therefore I can not keep them. 75% of the collection is going one place, and will be in great care. I am actually driving them cross country over thanksgiving to ensure they have a safe trip and arrival. I have a few more for sale, and some being given away, as long as they are going to be cared for. This is very tough for me to do, but I care enough about my animals to see them off to a better home. Some people can't do this, and I am not saying I am anyone special by any means, but people need to learn that if they cant provide 200% of the neccesary care for animals they should not have them!!!!! So for these people to say they cant afford test is crazy, find a way, or dont have the animals!!!!! I am done now as I am rambling at work of all places lol. Take care everyone. Dan.

Originally Posted by Jon Mitchell

Just wanted to let everyone know that now Allen is comapring himself to a used car salesman. In an email I got from him today, he said if he sold me a car and the motor ticked, he wouldn't stand behind it if I had someone else look at it first. Basically, it seems he wants the snake back to cover his tracks maybe with IBD if that snake has it. He doeesn't want to butt heads with me over it anymore but I just asked him if the snake had IBD what we could do to cover some of my loses.

Apparently he doesn't care about his customers but I am sure that has been stated here many times over.

Jon

Figures he'd want to keep it all behind the scenes but its all out now. Might as well cowboy up , grab your nanas and come out of the closet. The word is spreading , found that out at the GA Herp Society show , so come on out and prove it here if ya got nothing to hide. You know who I'm talking to.

Hey Dan,

Thanks for the encouragment. I am hoping for the best with him and looking for the light at the end of the tunnel sot-a-speak. He seems to be acting better with a lot less head tilt than what he did have. I haven't seen any of the rollovers since I started doing the glucose injected mice. Also, I assit fed him this evening and after much work with him trying to regurge the mice, he did pass some urates on his own. Seems like he might end up being ok. I did decide on getting another 1.1 spider pair from someone else obviously, just to have them in my breeding collection. I think this guy will become a pet and stay out of the breeding animals.

As far as your question about symptom signs from contraction, I have been doing a lot of research on it lately. It seems like an adult ball python will generally live anywhere from 2 to 6 months from the time of infection. This varies and can be prolonged my assist feeding and around the clock care. I also found that the higher the temperatures are in the environment, the shorter the time span seems to be to live with the virus. Hatchling and juvinile balls, seem to live a far less length of time once the virus has been contracted. Usually a life span of 2 to 4 months.

Symptoms on the other hand can show signs anywhere from 10 days to 3 months after infection. Infection generally occurs from bodily fluids coming into contact with another snake. This being in the form of urates or fecal matter usually. Once a snake has IBD and it begins to show signs, if the lungs start to sound filled with mucus, just the snakes breathe can have enough moisture molecules in it to carry the disease from one animal to another. Mites are also generally seen in collections with IBD but that is not always the case.

Apparently, there are certain blood tests that have had exellent success at showing Inclusion bodies in the blood stream. They are not always accurate, but they have had great success with them. Pete Kahl has some great articles on his website about IBD and his studies into it. www.pkreptiles.com

Byron, what happened at the GA show? I am going to take a keen interest in the life of Allen Blecher and help inform others of his misconduct in this industry and hopefullt steer some people away from him and his animals.

Byron, what happened at the GA show? I am going to take a keen interest in the life of Allen Blecher and help inform others of his misconduct in this industry and hopefullt steer some people away from him and his animals.

I had the chance to talk to a few folks and his name along with this thread are well known.Seems Allen " Big Daddy " Belcher is making a name for himself selling animals allright. I'll be watching the vendors lists of upcoming shows in the southeast. Any promotor having this guy as a vendor will most likely take some heat as this info ( IBD) spreads and could loose some potential table sales as well as customers thru the door. I'm pretty damn sure I wouldn't attend a show hes a vendor at and its likely others ( few or many ) may not either.

I agree with you Bryon. I am pretty sure I wont be attending any shows that I know he is going to be at. Absolutly will not be buying anything from them for sure. If I can find a list of the shows he is attending, I will, as I am sure others will as well, email them about this and the other threads to inform them of who they are letting display at thier show. Not that it would entice them to not allow him to bring his animals but maybe to at least inform them of the type of person he really is.

Jon

BTW, the spider is still hanging in there. He is not tilting his head very much at all and he is not rolling over like he was. I sent my vet a link to Pete Kahls website to make sure he looked for the stuff Pete found in the blood of some animals he knew had IBD. The spider only had 2 items that had similar results but he didn't have the other 4 or 5 levels. I know it still doesn't rule it out, but I keep feeling better about it all the same.

I did just pick up another spider pair from someone I trust so at least I will have something in the breeding stock in a year or two.

BTW, the spider is still hanging in there. He is not tilting his head very much at all and he is not rolling over like he was. I sent my vet a link to Pete Kahls website to make sure he looked for the stuff Pete found in the blood of some animals he knew had IBD. The spider only had 2 items that had similar results but he didn't have the other 4 or 5 levels. I know it still doesn't rule it out, but I keep feeling better about it all the same.

I did just pick up another spider pair from someone I trust so at least I will have something in the breeding stock in a year or two.

Congrats on both counts. Got my fingers crossed the one isn't IBD positive but it sure turned into an expensive pet. I'm no expert but I doubt that little guy could handle a good breeding season. Sounds alot like you got an animal that was NO WHERE started as well as it should have been if started at all.

Here it is Lloyd. Dan or Jim O. or anyone else that wanted to carry on the discussion/debate about subjects that might be deemed as "NOT REAL" in the other Allen B. thread, give it a go here. Might help to cut-and-paste some things, as I am in the habit of forgeting everything that I learned yesterday. Anyone who comes here with a REAL issue will be advised to go to the other REAL thread ! Between the two, I believe we will have a choice to GET REAL !

I am not attacking anyone here just giving my opinion on the IBD problem.Since IBD has been compared to as being the snakes version of AIDS in humans as they are both lethal and have "carriers"(boas in snakes).Everyone has been going back and forth about how it should be illegal to knowingly sell snakes that are in question of possibly having IBD.Then others are saying that no courts would succeed with prosecuting a IBD case with a successfully outcome.Please think about this.How long was it before knowingly passing AIDS to others become a Felony? I see in the near future knowingly selling snakes in question of possibly having IBD or when infact someone does have IBD in there collection being held accountable of there actions. The right prosecutor with all the info presented here would have no problem prosecuting Allen to the fullest extent of the law.All he or she would have to do is compare it to AIDS in humans and the jury would no problem understanding the severity of it.