Attention Ron Billingsley Customers!

Yeah well if it was not a newer import Ron has had the WC Gravid Females since like Decemberish maybe even November. He orders them every year and so far have been all good. Maybe it was just something internal that got out and then spread cause he won't treat for internal because the whole reason he gets them in is because of the eggs. But I was just checking. Hope it all works out and it is nothing serious though.

Originally Posted by Joe Hiduke

Scott Ashton-You mentioned Heartwater found in imported African vipers. Was the Cowdria found in the vipers, or in the ticks found on the vipers? Do you have a reference for this?

I read through the abstract again.

"These lesions strongly resembled the lesions of heartwater and a coccobacillus of less than 1-micron diameter was isolated in viper cell culture".

The authors note that it was tick borne and was "Coxidia-like". Its unclear whether or not the appearance of the disease is varied in reptile pathology or its is a very similar pathogen to the one that causes heartwater.

Here is the reference:

JOHNATHAN L KIEL, RODOLFO M ALARCON, JILL E PARKER, JEEVA VIVEKANANDA, YVETTE B GONZALEZ, LUCILLE J.V STRIBLING, CARRIE J ANDREWS (2006)
Emerging Tick-Borne Disease in African Vipers Caused by a Cowdria-Like Organism
Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 1081 (1), 434–442.
doi:10.1196/annals.1373.062

This is an interesting discussion but it doesn't seem like a BOI topic to me. Possibly General Business??

Jenna
That disease was not bruccellosis was it? If so that is also a cattle disease that is zoonotic over several species causing spontaneous miscarrying or aborted calves and works on dogs affects human reproduction and the like.
I worked for a vet at a local stockyard and that was the main disease we tested for before auction. If one was found to be positive it was immediately distroyed and the farm quarantined until further notice.
Thanks
Jewell

John, internal and external parasites are very different. Ticks are external parasites. They latch themselves to the skin under the scales of a snake. Internal parasites live inside the digestive and sometimes lymphatic system of animals. They can not just turn from internal to external. If the snake had ticks it had ticks and if you purchased them they may have ticks you have not noticed in the vent, under the chin, around the eye, under the belly scales, etc. If one snake in a batch had them odds are they all do.

Originally Posted by Scott Ashton

Here is the reference:

JOHNATHAN L KIEL, RODOLFO M ALARCON, JILL E PARKER, JEEVA VIVEKANANDA, YVETTE B GONZALEZ, LUCILLE J.V STRIBLING, CARRIE J ANDREWS (2006)
Emerging Tick-Borne Disease in African Vipers Caused by a Cowdria-Like Organism
Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 1081 (1), 434–442.
doi:10.1196/annals.1373.062

Thanks for the reference Scott. I see a trip to UF Marston Science Library in my near future. I appreciate you passing that along.

Joe Hiduke

Yeah Evan I understand that. Mine is clean as can be. She is also eating small rats now. Won't eat anything bigger for some odd reason but loves smalls. I have seen recently imported ball pythons that have tics in the cloaca and it often cause discomfort in the animal or so it seems. But I still hope that Jenna's problem gets solved.

I do know that Ron brought in more than one group of these animals, at different times.

Those who disagreed with my comments showed some restraint in not jumping on a "flame" bandwagon -- I appreciate that, nothing here need be made personal. But I don't think my comments were assinine - just more honest than most.

I asked a question - those who disagreed really never answered. I think I know why.

Q - Have you ever found a tick or mite on one of your reptiles?

Q - If the answer is yes, did you (or your vet) submit said mite to a pathology lab for testing and alert the federal authorities?

Q - If not, why not? If this is what should be done, why aren't you doing it?

I am making a simple assertion: this isn't how most of us normally handle the situation -- for very obvious reasons. We see a mite, we treat the animal, we are done with it. Am I mistaken? For all those who are applauding the involvement of pathology labs and governmental notification for every tick or mite -- and yet you have not invited this scrutiny into your own homes and collections -- I suggest that your actions and words don't line up.

I was just being honest. Probably the most honest poster on this topic. Again, if you are all handling your occasional mite problems in this fashion, let me know. I will stand humbly (and quietly) corrected.

Originally Posted by redbird

it?

We see a mite, we treat the animal, we are done with it.

I would say that many experienced keepers might do just this. HOWEVER, there is absolutely nothing wrong in taking a critter to the vet, and this particular time the vet found something she felt warranted more information.

To tell a person to 'find another vet' because the vet you have is good, careful and responsible and sends off for further information is just the height of bad advice in my opinion.

Whatever happens in this situation I think both Jenna and the vet did the right thing. They should be applauded for their actions: there have been several devastating diseases mentioned in this thread and the actions taken by these two just to make sure of what they were dealing with showed responsibility not only to the snake, but to the reptile community and the community in general.