Attention Ron Billingsley Customers!

From what I read in the OP. The vet found something she wasn't familiar with with normal mites/ticks on snakes and that was why she chose to send it for further study. Was she wrong in doing so? I think NOT. If there was a chance this tick was able to carry some disease that could affect other animals she was doing the right thing. If it's found out nothing was wrong. She still did the right thing because she didn't recognize that certain tick/mite. Kudo's to the vet for making the right choice!

Originally Posted by redbird

I asked a question - those who disagreed really never answered. I think I know why.

Q - Have you ever found a tick or mite on one of your reptiles?

Q - If the answer is yes, did you (or your vet) submit said mite to a pathology lab for testing and alert the federal authorities?

Q - If not, why not? If this is what should be done, why aren't you doing it?

Yes, I have found an identifiable, common mite on a snake I purchased. I treated it, and was done with it.

However, even if I personally found a tick or mite that did NOT look like anything I had ever seen before, if nothing else, out of curiousity, I would probably ask a vet to try to ID it. If a reptile vet could not ID it, or recognised it as a parasite known to carry a devastating disease, you're dang right I would expect it to be sent in for pathology. Again, the vet is not the one who alerted the authorities, it was the LAB. They are required by LAW to report this kind of thing.

Originally Posted by redbird

For all those who are applauding the involvement of pathology labs and governmental notification for every tick or mite -- and yet you have not invited this scrutiny into your own homes and collections -- I suggest that your actions and words don't line up.

Perhaps if our words are "not lining up" for you, you simply aren't reading them correctly. NO ONE here is inviting any kind of "scrutiny" for every single mite and/or tick....only the ones that could potentially cause devastating consequences....not only to the snake it is on, or our collection, or ourselves, but the ENTIRE BEEF INDUSTRY as we know it. Billions of dollars, millions of lives.

Both Jenna's vet and Jenna did everything completely as it should have been done. If this turns out to be nothing....well, we can all breathe a sigh of relief and be reminded how vigilant we need to be about quarantine procedures and such. If it turns out to be something like Heartwater, we can breathe a much bigger sigh of relief, because a potentially devastating outbreak may have been stopped by their actions, and not only can we still go to Burger King and have a burger, there won't be millions of farmers with no income, cattle dying, and general financial upheaval throughout the country. Stop with the "I know what I'm doing, I'm too smart to have to ask a vet about a stupid mite" and think about the BIG PICTURE....the one outside of your little world.

Final post from the only one who will say it out loud.

Dozens (if not hundreds) of people who read these threads have found mites and ticks on new imports and CB animals...including some previous posters who claim to be active professional importers.

As of yet, not a single one has stepped up and said:

"Yes, that's exactly what I did - I found a mite, and had my vet take it to a pathology lab for investigation. It happened 8 times last year - I went through a federal quarantine each time, closed down my business each time, spent weeks and months without moving a single animal in or out."

The reason no one is saying that is simple - no one is doing it. You get a shipment from africa with ticks/mites - you treat it, you kill the bugs, you sell them. That is EXACTLY what is going on in the real world. And some of the same people who enjoy talking about the big picture still can't get honest about how they PERSONALLY are dealing with the issue in their own collections/businesses. We aren't talking about what you would do, or might do -- what have you actually done when you found a bug? Talk about that, OK?

Actions speak louder than words. I have already told you what I do when a mite/tick is found -- exactly the same thing the rest of you do. So far, no one has said that they personally have ever done any different.

If you are saying that due to the gravity of this situation, breeders/dealers/importers should start sending ticks & mites for pathology reports and involve the government when they see a bug on their snake - then I salute you. Lead the pack. Put your money where your mouth is. Do it yourself. Those of you with businesses - let me know how that all turns out for you. Dying to hear it.

Last comment. Not mad. Don't need enemies.

Are you unable to comprehend what has been written, or just choosing not to?

I have told you what I HAVE DONE when I found a mite. It was an identifiable critter, and I killed it. Perhaps you missed that. It would be a completely different scenario if it has been something unidentifiable. Perhaps no one here, until now, has actually found themselves in that predicament. And it's a wonder why perhaps people do think twice about speaking out, with someone like you telling them that they shouldn't have.

Originally Posted by redbird

If you are saying that due to the gravity of this situation, breeders/dealers/importers should start sending ticks & mites for pathology reports and involve the government when they see a bug on their snake

Um, I specifically stated in my last post that was NOT my point, perhaps you missed that as well. There is a difference between finding a NORMAL COMMON MITE and one that is either unidentifiable, or one that is a known carrier of a dangerous disease.

And did you stop to think that perhaps you are the only one saying these things out loud, because you are the only one who just doesn't seem to "get it"?

Originally Posted by redbird

Final post from the only one who will say it out loud.

Dozens (if not hundreds) of people who read these threads have found mites and ticks on new imports and CB animals...including some previous posters who claim to be active professional importers.

As of yet, not a single one has stepped up and said:

"Yes, that's exactly what I did - I found a mite, and had my vet take it to a pathology lab for investigation. It happened 8 times last year - I went through a federal quarantine each time, closed down my business each time, spent weeks and months without moving a single animal in or out."

The reason no one is saying that is simple - no one is doing it. You get a shipment from africa with ticks/mites - you treat it, you kill the bugs, you sell them. That is EXACTLY what is going on in the real world. And some of the same people who enjoy talking about the big picture still can't get honest about how they PERSONALLY are dealing with the issue in their own collections/businesses. We aren't talking about what you would do, or might do -- what have you actually done when you found a bug? Talk about that, OK?

Actions speak louder than words. I have already told you what I do when a mite/tick is found -- exactly the same thing the rest of you do. So far, no one has said that they personally have ever done any different.

If you are saying that due to the gravity of this situation, breeders/dealers/importers should start sending ticks & mites for pathology reports and involve the government when they see a bug on their snake - then I salute you. Lead the pack. Put your money where your mouth is. Do it yourself. Those of you with businesses - let me know how that all turns out for you. Dying to hear it.

Last comment. Not mad. Don't need enemies.

I'm glad it's your last comment because you are in my opinion irresponsible by saying that most people just treat mites and go on. That may be true, it does not affect that in this case, vet care was a good choice. Here, the vet noticed something different and took appropriate action.

Your implication is that no one need buy insurance, or get vaccination, because after all it is only the few that are harmed and most people never need anything like that.
The fallacy is that sometimes, a disease will infect millions; whether the infection affects animals or people the consequences are still far reaching; and the devastation of an epidemic can be sometimes prevented by astute observation and professional follow up.

Last bit that I forgot to address regading the "I think I'm so smart" issue -

How many out there are really qualified to compare mites/ticks (since we wanted to talk about "average, every-day mites" not needing to be investigated)?

I would bet that most collectors/importers/breeders do not have the qualifications to tell one tiny mite/tick from another. I would bet that the average vet doesn't -- many of them barely have a working knowledge of herp pathology. All most of us can say with certainty is that SOME bugs can carry a disease. Again, if we are all so altruistically concerned with the big picture -- why isn't anyone sending all these bugs out and alerting the authorities?

I do know this one thing about every tick and mite ever born -- dead ones don't spread disease.

Mike Bostic

The other thing you might not be taking into account is - this particular tick probably lived through normal treatment.

Do you think that most people who put an animal through external parasite treatment saw ONE type of tick that lived through it, they might have it tested? Maybe, maybe they'd just crush it. Resistant strains of any organism can be worrisome and are a real concern.

But you're missing the point. The OP was not familiar with external parasites, and was not wrong in taking the snake to the vet. The vet was not wrong in passing the tick to the lab. The lab couldn't ID it and contacted the government, creating this situation. Perhaps thousands of the same sort of tick are killed every day when importers treat their shipments, perhaps not. No, it wouldn't make logistical sense for every importer/dealer to keep every tick they find and have it identified. But if they did notice a very strange one, should they just sweep it under the rug and ignore it? Or should they take it in for identification and risk some inconvenience? It's a question of ethics. Some will always say "yes!" and some will say "no" as you are saying.

The point is that if an unusual and possibly dangerous specimen IS encountered and identified, why not send it in? Why hush it up for the purpose of not endangering our hobby, when the consequences of letting it slip might start an epidemic?

Please don't look down your nose at the person who does decide to bring attention to a possibly dangerous specimen. Your opinion is clear. The issue, however, is not a clearcut one. But I think the OP did the right thing. Can it cause negative issues within our hobby? Sure, but unlike some things (like fear of snakes causing legislation to be created against reptile keeping), this particular issue shows a real possible danger beyond just danger to the hobby.

Michael, I can't figure out the reason for your last two posts. I couldn't find the post (the one you must be referring to) that stated that everyone should turn the mites and ticks they find, on African imports, into the feds.

Most of the events that occured in this thread were out of the OP hands and she was just relating what happened.

That last post was extremely intelligent, reasonable and well-thought-out. And yes, I was probably having way too much fun with the previous posters (can't help it - the self-righteous types who angrily support the virtues of one behavior while actively practicing another have always been a source of entertainment for me).

Jenna is young, presumably fairly new to the hobby. If I read her age right, I've been keeping herps longer than she's been alive. She was not sure what to do -- cared about the animals and wanted to the right thing. All laudable. I wasn't criticizing her - honestly. Again, my choice of words should have been better.

I am still less than impressed with the vet - we have already discussed why. And yes, I agree we need to protect the hobby. I tend to think that less government involvement in our business is the best way to accomplish that - we can agree to disagree.

I was just trying to be real about how this problem is handled, effectively, every day - without involving burearocrats (whom I instinctually distrust!)

Smile- be happy.
No hard feelings.

Mike

Originally Posted by redbird

I am still less than impressed with the vet - we have already discussed why

Mike,

You just can't help yourself can you? The vet saw something that was not familiar to her and sent it off to the lab. It turned out that it may have been something rather significant. What's there not to be impressed about the vet doing her job properly?

To put this in perspective, imagine if that tick were on your child. Would you want the doctor to ignore something because it was unfamiliar? This was a professional doing her job properly by asking for help on something unusual and unfamiliar. That's good medicine!!! Sorry if you're simply too dense to understand that, or too stuck in your way of thinking.