Clown x Pied surprise!

That looks amazing! Good luck getting that male!

What did she breed last year? If she's a virgin that is awesome. If she is not, maybe some retention issues? Either way, good luck Steve!

Regards,

B

Did you hatch more than the two eggs and where the others the expected more normal looking double hets?

Years and years ago someone named Matt Turner produced a pied from a VPI het clown X assumed normal. For years I wondered if pied and clown might be an allele pair (different mutations of the same gene) like albino and candy/toffee. But I believe TSK eventually produced double hets on the way to double homozygous clown pied proving that not to be the case. So guess your clown could be a decedent of one of the VPI/Turner/TSK breedings combining the two genes.

It's also possible the pied babies could be parthenogenic clones of mom. If the 2nd one is a male it will disprove that I think as one type of parthenogenesis produces all females and the other type all males so unlikely you would get both with that scenario. Would still be cool if you could find someone to do a paternity test on one of the pied babies to possibly eliminate sperm retention or parthenogenesis as possible explanations. That one pied does look het clown like so the simples explanation that your clown male is het pied could well be correct.

Originally Posted by Breaking Balls

What did she breed last year? If she's a virgin that is awesome. If she is not, maybe some retention issues? Either way, good luck Steve!

Regards,

B

Thanks, this was the Pieds very first clutch and I don't have any record of her being with any other male than the clown.

Originally Posted by CornNut

Did you hatch more than the two eggs and where the others the expected more normal looking double hets?

Years and years ago someone named Matt Turner produced a pied from a VPI het clown X assumed normal. For years I wondered if pied and clown might be an allele pair (different mutations of the same gene) like albino and candy/toffee. But I believe TSK eventually produced double hets on the way to double homozygous clown pied proving that not to be the case. So guess your clown could be a decedent of one of the VPI/Turner/TSK breedings combining the two genes.

It's also possible the pied babies could be parthenogenic clones of mom. If the 2nd one is a male it will disprove that I think as one type of parthenogenesis produces all females and the other type all males so unlikely you would get both with that scenario. Would still be cool if you could find someone to do a paternity test on one of the pied babies to possibly eliminate sperm retention or parthenogenesis as possible explanations. That one pied does look het clown like so the simples explanation that your clown male is het pied could well be correct.

The Pied only laid 2 viable eggs out of four and I was expecting DH's and both are females. I'll post a pic later of the other.

Can't rule out parthenogenesis like in the case of the Burm that produced female clones of herself. Maybe not the most likely explanation but would be awesome if you could find someone with the right lab connection to test for that.

Originally Posted by CornNut

Can't rule out parthenogenesis like in the case of the Burm that produced female clones of herself. Maybe not the most likely explanation but would be awesome if you could find someone with the right lab connection to test for that.

I'll just breed my Clown to a virgin Mojave het Pied next season and see what hatches.


Here's the other female and then both together.

Way to bump that project forward unintentionally!

due to the clown markers on those pieds, I'd venture to say the clown is a het ...

phenomenal !! congrats

Thanks everyone!