Heavy parasite load found in ball python from Ed Clark

Originally Posted by Gary O

Emily in the last 10 months have any other snakes at all came in contact with your collection. I mean any? I know you said you have only bought a couple others. But I have friends that bring snakes to me that is why I ask.

No, no other snakes have been in my house at all. I don't handle snakes at pet stores nor have I been to the homes of people close by that have reptiles (I don't really know them well enough). The only people that have handled any of my snakes are close friends and family, and we are talking about people that do not own reptiles, that visit maybe twice per year and that wash their hands before and after handling. I usually take out one or two of my calmest snakes (not any of the girls from Ed), they hold them for a minute (if they hold them at all) and that's it. My reptile room is not a highly trafficked area except by me and the herps that reside in it.

Not to side track too badly gary, but yoru brother needs to work on his communication skills. If I can't understand what he says, if the other people he's talking to can't understand the point he's making, where does the fault lie? With the listeners or the guy not making his point?

I asked your little brother for pics of these hypo FWCs as I'm always interested in them and would love to have a new bloodline.

Funny thing is, he just left the chat without saying a thing.

I'd SURE like to see some of these pics and if what you say is true about the price I'd like to get some. I see normals, ugly normals for 100 - 125 all the time.

What's that old saying, goes sort of like... if is sounds too good to be true it probably.....

Sometimes when a kid, like your little brother, refuses to listen he needs to have his attention drawn to his errors.

I bet it worked today.

Let him speak for himself.

If he's so smart and enthusiastic, it should be no problem for him to come here and clarify what he meant, much as I have had to when I've been misunderstood or, rarely, been wrong altogether.

And after reading that I can now better understand why you went ahead and posted here. He brought it up publically first, so I see no reason why you should not continue it publically.

Strike that. I just got through reading a thread about this on ball-pythons.net and it appears that Emily first publically mentioned Ed's name in regard to this on 09/14. So unless Ed brought it up before that then I take my above statement back.

Originally Posted by cookreptiles

No, no other snakes have been in my house at all. I don't handle snakes at pet stores nor have I been to the homes of people close by that have reptiles (I don't really know them well enough). The only people that have handled any of my snakes are close friends and family, and we are talking about people that do not own reptiles, that visit maybe twice per year and that wash their hands before and after handling. I usually take out one or two of my calmest snakes (not any of the girls from Ed), they hold them for a minute (if they hold them at all) and that's it. My reptile room is not a highly trafficked area except by me and the herps that reside in it.

Sounds like you Q your animals very well. That is a great great thing. Again I am so sorry to hear about this. I only know Ed from the forums. I have PMed him a few times about a few animals.

I am not sure of the next step for you other then get the rest of them ball pythons checked but you are already doing that. I hope the rest are cleared but I am not so sure they will be as they were housed in the same area. But I have my fingers crossed for you.

Do not let this bad thing get you out of the Ball python hobby. It is still fun and and a blast to hatch out your own stuff. I seen you say you were looking at Mojaves. They are so awesome! I hope to see you still into Ball pythons after all this!

Bruce has NO BUSINESS posting on this thread or any other one unless the title states somewhere alone the line of "how to scam people for the geckos after being lazy". He is known for attempting to pull a scam and he will defend Ed to the grave because he bought his friendship. Anyone in that whole Jedi circle are clueless and do not have honest opinions and ways about. So for anyone unaware, do NOT take Bruce or Bud's posts seriously as they are just a waste of text.

Anthony Allis
ExoticsExpress@aol.com

NoT at all did I say anything like that you came up with your own twisted conclusions and based from the rest of your post we see your motives.
you are a ed hater and you never say its a opinion you say it as fact!
thats where ed might be interested hahahahaha!
so are you bill?
only a few posts can this be a ghost web slave?

Originally Posted by JudyC

Wow....so you're saying Ed's adult breeders are infested with parasites and passing them on to the babies he is selling. Good stuff to know.

Emily has fully owned that she should have had fecals done as soon as the snakes arrived in her care. At the time that she did the trade, Ed was still charming everyone and convincing them he had a huge breeding facility and produced all his own babies that he had for sale. Now we know differently.

How many of us have ever seen Ed stand up and willingly take responsibility for any error or lie he has made? He only does so when confronted publicly and eventually finds himself unable to talk his way out of whatever it is. And even then, the subject is usually completely ignored by him at that point until it finally fades away. He made it perfectly clear that he would not take the least amount of responsibility for the parasites found...much less take the time and go through the humbling experience of contacting all of his customers to let them know they should have fecals done on any animals purchased from him.

I don't think he knowingly sold Emily snakes with parasites. But I DO absolutely believe the parasites came from his facility....either because the animals were NOT captive bred by him but came from some unknown source....or because his quarantine and cleanliness practices are SO lax that he allows his own captive bred babies to be exposed to whatever nastiness his imports and resell animals bring in. (OR...his breeders are already infected to begin with and are passing it on to their babies....as this member so eloquently pointed out. )

Originally Posted by KelliH

Strike that. I just got through reading a thread about this on ball-pythons.net and it appears that Emily first publically mentioned Ed's name in regard to this on 09/14. So unless Ed brought it up before that then I take my above statement back.

It was brought up there initially because that's Em's "home forum" so to speak....and her snake had just pooped out this really nasty stuff and she had no idea what it was and wanted some input while waiting to see the vet about it. After the vet reports came back...Ed's name did come out in the thread and subsequently she decided she absolutely needed to talk with him about it and give him a chance to respond professionally before bringing it up on the BOI. Especially as Ed is banned from BP.net and could not respond to the threads in question. Those threads are now locked to prevent any further discussion about Ed to which he can not respond.

In the meantime...instead of getting back to Emily about whether or not he "remembers" which snakes he sold her...he posts that scathing reply on another forum, making it clear where he stood on the matter.

I'll say this...I completely understand Ed's frustration at his inability to respond directly to the issue at BP.net and to have it brought up to him in an entirely different forum. However...if he conducted his business on the up-and-up to begin with, he wouldn't be having these issues at all.

Originally Posted by Gary O

That if the said snake was produced by a WC female that had these parasites then the babies also could have them. As it has already been stated.

This is not a very accurate statement, and it has been stated more than once in this topic. While there are a few parasites that could potentially be transmitted from mother to baby, tapeworms specifically would not be one of them.

Additionally, the incidence of reptilian maternal-fetal transmission of all parasites (while I doubt that it has ever been studied) has got to be unbelievably low...especially in pythons (as opposed to boas that bear live young, and hence are internally incubated by the mother).

Most internal parasites are transmitted by ingestion (not casual contact), and infected feeder animals, or fecally contaminated food or water (depending on the organism in question) are the usual vectors of transmission. Tapeworms, specifically, have an indirect lifecycle, and consequently require an intermediate host in order to infect a new organism. Transmission is the result of the ingestion of an infected intermediate host (i.e. an infected rodent in the case of a ball python). There is no such thing as a tapeworm that can only live in reptiles, as there has to be an intermediate host. Neither are tapeworms transmitted from one animal to another in a collection...it just doesn't work like that.

Originally Posted by cookreptiles

The kind of tapeworm that infects reptiles is different from the tapeworm that infects mammals. The snake has the reptilian version of the tapeworm along with strongyloides and coccidia.

That statement isn't actually 100% correct as tapeworms are transmitted via ingestion of a vertebrate or mammalian intermediate host.

Internal Parasites - Cestodes
Tapeworms

1. Ingestion of a vertebrate or mammalian intermediate host
2. In large #’s they can cause secondary malnutrition, inflammation, enteritis, and mechanical obstruction
3. Diagnosis: eggs on fecal flotation, detection of proglottids in stool, visibly seeing a tapeworm passed

Internal Parasites - Nematodes
Strongyloides

1. Infected through percutaneous penetration by larvae or oral ingestion
2. Cause GI irritation and diarrhea
3. Respiratory distress may occur occasionally due to larval migration through the lungs
4. Diagnosis: larvae presence in fresh feces

Internal Parasites - Protozoan
Coccidia (Eimeria, Isospora)

1. Ingested of contaminated water and food and also from the environment as possible infection
2. Symptoms vary from mild diarrhea to death
3. Diagnosis: oocysts of fresh stool samples

Important Hygiene Factors

1. Prevent fecal accumulation
2. Cleanliness is essential
3. Prevent exposure to contaminated water
4. Don’t allow for “musical food”
5. Provide adequate quarantine protocol
6. Maintain adequate personal hygiene

Originally Posted by bud mierkey

NoT at all did I say anything like that you came up with your own twisted conclusions and based from the rest of your post we see your motives.
you are a ed hater and you never say its a opinion you say it as fact!
thats where ed might be interested hahahahaha!
so are you bill?
only a few posts can this be a ghost web slave?

Bill? That's a new one. Sometimes I get called "dude" when people don't pay attention to the name attached to all my posts....but that's the first time I've ever been called "Bill."

No...I don't have many posts here. I have my own forum to run and other than following the current threads on the BOI, I don't have the time or the inclination to participate in other forums.

I'm involved in this one because I know and care about the people involved and feel I have enough understanding and information about both parties to provide something useful to this discussion.

Judy Clothier
JLC -- Administrator, Ball-Pythons.net