THE MOLE KING SAGA CONTINUES******

If you guys remember back on the first of november I sold a (yearling) mole king on line to a brett skinner.He said it was a hatchling and it was going to die and he wanted his money back?

I told him no way cause I had sent pics before hand and had told him it was just a yearling.He said I posted adults and thats what he wanted????????
Well anyway,I am sure most of you remember.
I get a e-mail from pay-pal on the sixth of this month stating that there was a pending chargeback to my account to a brett skinner?
I went to the pay-pal site and got ahold of a real phone # and gave them a little call.

It got a little nasty and the end result was I had to e-mail my side of the story to a link they provided?
I did this and today I get another e-mail saying that I had lost my case??Talk about pissed off,I call again and got nowere again.
They state that its his credit card company and not pay-pal doing it?What protection does the seller have???????????????

So now I have a chargeback ($105 + 10.00 for the service of coarse)on my account that I need to pay to keep my account in good standing.

Heres the kicker,The basT@rd still has the snake??????
Do you know of anybody that has ever got there money back without sending back the product??????????

Any help on this matter would be appreciated.

shannon brown

That's OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!

Shannon,

Could you maybe email PayPal or the credit card company a link to the appropriate thread, so that they could see the response this moron got from people who actually know snakes? Maybe that wouldn't do anything, but I would certainly go down swinging, if I had to go down at all!

Good luck --

Obviously the people who were judging your case didn't know any more about mole kings than that moron Brett Skinner.
That's pretty disheartening to know that the seller is so vulnerable to being ripped off even when he does the right thing. I was under the impression that the seller was given some type of protection by Paypal but I guess not.....I guess accepting money orders is starting to look good again.

If this jerk keeps the snake and gets his money refunded, isn't that theft? Can't you contact his local authorities? I know we're not talking about a huge amount of money but I'd hate to see this guy get away with this.

I'm sorry to hear you're getting screwed like this!
Chris Raden

That's crazy. How can they justify that? You get nothing? They should @ least hold his $ until you get your snake back.WOW
Hopefully I will be producing some high end BP and Boa morphs next year and I was going to rely on Paypal because they allow buyers to to use credit cards or cash. I thought it was pretty safe.GUESS NOT. Now what would our options be? Just MO's.
I'm sorry that you got scammed. Hopefully someone like Ritchie will be able to help.
Thanks for updating us.
Good Luck, Rob

I guess the only bright side is that it wasn't a $1000.00 snake?
I think from now on all pay-pals will be from there bank transfers only and not credit cards.

I will send pay-pal the link to the origanal thread plus all his threatning e-mails as well?

shannon brown

Shannon, I'm sorry to hear about this. I've taken some hits in the past on this type of thing with CCs and there's little you can do. Do you have the FedEx or UPS packing slip that can be used as proof of shipment? Also, many times you can file a suit for less then $20 and if they don't show you win by default. Of course there's little good that would do if you're not there either but I would do it just to be a pain in the ass.

In any event, post all the info you have on this guy and I'll be sure to add him to my list of people to stay clear of.

Adam Block

Paypal is notorious for being quick to freeze accounts when anything is disputed. Sellers almost invariably suffer until the situation is resolved.

If paypal is being truthful when they say it is the credit card doing it though, that raises some questions.
As I understand it, a credit card company is only concerned with the receipt of goods, not the quality of goods.
As long as the item purchased was what was received, then the CC company will do nothing. One reason being exactly what's happening here, the customer has the goods and the cash he paid for them.
A CC company is not going to get into evaluating the quality of merchandise, or how well it's represented.
Had he returned the snake to you and you had not refunded his money, then the CC company would have taken action and reversed the charges.

If this is correct, then the only way Brett could have gotten the reversal of the charges would have been to lie to the credit card company.

From the PayPal seller protection policy:

Retain reasonable proof-of-shipment that can be tracked online

Always keep proof that you did indeed honor the payment and made the shipment to the Confirmed Address. You will be required to provide a copy of this shipment record in cases of disputes. The tracking documentation must show that you shipped to the Confirmed Address. For items valued at $250 or more, you must include a signature from the recipient as proof of receipt. Most U.S. carrier companies, including the U.S. Postal Service, offer these proof of delivery services.

If you shipped the snake to his confirmed address and still have the tracking number, then according to their own policy, you should be protected.
Paypal however has not shown itself to be very customer friendly once problems have arisen.

I agree with Adam, and did even before this last event, add Skinner to the list of buyers to avoid. What he is doing now is nothing more than running a scam, since he has not returned the snake.
What worries me is that other shady buyers may try to run the same scam once it is realized where the loop holes are.
How many of you have sent a shipment to someone's workplace, or another location so that someone could be available to accept it? This nullifies the seller protection from the start.

from what I understand, their is no signature of the transaction between the purchaser and the seller. This becomes critical as to the agreement of the sale.

What you may want to consider for future protection is to fax some kind of policy statement that includes an acceptance on the part of the buyer and have him sign it and return it to you. Their are no other forms of protection offerred to the seller. Your sale was based on "good faith", but theoretically the buyer can say you offerred him a 3 month guarantee and you would have no proof otherwise.

Does he have to send the snake back, is an interesting question. He can claim it died and he no longer kept it, or at least some other outragous excuse, but in the end I think you would still loose. Your only recourse would be to sue him. The credit card companies, paypal included are not disputing that you did not ship what they are disputing is that the item(s) in question were not sold under the terms of him being "satisfied". Its a terrible situation, and I have every now and then run into this problem myself. JERRY TRESSER

Quite simply, let him know that you will be contacting his local law enforcement agency to file a complaint. What Brett Skinner has done amounts to theft, and he should be held culpable for his moronic actions.

You may also be able to contact the credit card, and explain this little fraud of his.

I totally agree here, What he has done is not only theft, but is Fraud as well. and credit card fraud. I would definitely contact paypal again, his credit card company (Paypal will have to give you the information on the credit card now) and his local Law Enforcement and make this guy be held accountable for his actions. This is the kind of person that gives online sales a bad taste for the sellers.