Excel Dragonz - Aaron Flores

Originally Posted by excel dragonz

She already posted this story on facebook. If you’d like to see the whole thing go to Facebook FBI - Feedback and Inquiries for Reptiles. This whole thing is already discussed about, so please everyone be my guest. Not doing this twice.

Your best option would be to address it here and not be defensive about it. Not everyone has a Facebook account, nor do many feel like sifting through pages of irrelevant chatter to find the meat of the conversation. If you don't want to rewrite it all, SS the relevant comments and post them here.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

I agree with most everything you have said, except the part bolded; not everyone can see the early stages of MBD. So even if the OP received pictures, it's possible that they didn't have the knowledge to see the swelling.

I wasn’t implying she should have known it had MBD from the pictures, but by the way I worded that, I could see that being implied. My apologies. I was actually was curious to see the original pictures provided. Because honestly not a lot of people can spot early signs of MBD so perhaps it was missed by both OP and Aaron.

With how she behaves I don't know how he missed that she was ill but anything is possible. I apologize for my statement regarding her constipation level, even after the vet appointment she continued to remain constipated for close to a week before passing stool on her own and that was a big concern with the vet so I may have a little passion in my words. The original post has a link to his ad with pictures. I didn't notice mbd in the pictures and his reputation was good I honestly didn't think it would be an issue. I know buying an older dragon can have it's issues so I did research the seller before buying. I thought the darkness around her eyes was markings, they were droopy. I didn't notice mbd from her swollen legs once she got here, she is lacking in strength, but she's got floppy toes and some occasional twitching in her legs that I did recognize. He had over 3 weeks to observe the animal between the time he listed, sold and shipped her.

He was very difficult to work with, ignoring my messages while continuing to post dragons for sale and loving pictures. It was very frustrating! He tried to get me to ship back a possibly gravid and later possibly egg bound, sick animal. That alone was astonishing to me! That he'd risk her life over a refund shows me that he doesn't care. While that may not have been the real issue she showed all the signs with her behavior. Either way once I sent the vets report he had nothing to say and I did get a refund only after threatening to go to my bank and him selling a few more dragons. If he'd communicated that he didn't have the cash, I would have been more understanding but instead he just left me hanging to wonder if I'd just gotten completely screwed for a few days. He may have repeatedly apologized about the situation but he showed no concern over the animals welfare in my opinion.

He has yet to answer anything about his keeping practices or the age of his uvb bulbs. It seems like he thinks it's beneath him. I don't know. But any bearded Dragon keeper, let alone breeder should be able to tell you that without it being seen as a threat. Uvb is critical to bearded dragon health and a little record keeping goes a long way to prevent oversights and mishaps that endanger an animals life.

I've spent most of the refund on vet bills and meds already and will surpass it with the follow-up visit no problem. My money isn't the issue though, I want to be very clear. I will pay whatever it takes to get her where she needs to be. I was sure to quarantine and have taken steps to ensure my other dragons are not infected and they'll be getting fecals as well just to be sure. I do want to point out that at no point in our transaction did he make any mention of his guarantee policy, I had to dig on his wix site when he mentioned it to find it posted anywhere.

It's been a really rough experience and the seller seems indifferent. I've been attacked by other breeders and trolls on Facebook and to be honest this whole thing has put a very sour taste in my mouth. I really feel like I've done nothing wrong but I've been belittled for saying something. Honestly at this point I don't expect anything but I do feel people have a right to know that this seems to be no big deal to him and that he was willing to risk shipping an ill, possibly egg bound animal twice over a refund.

Contined...

[quote=Snake-Queen;2052710]Your best option would be to address it here and not be defensive about it. Not everyone has a Facebook account, nor do many feel like sifting through pages of irrelevant chatter to find the meat of the conversation. If you don't want to rewrite it all, SS the relevant comments and post them here.[/QUOTE

You are fair to ask for information. Honestly I'd be wary if I were him as the FB thread was nasty. I'd be wary of going down that road again too if I were him.

The buyer has every right to post her experience.

As I understand it the seller refunded the money and forfeited the dragon.

It's an unfortunate experience for all involved for sure.

Facebook did indeed get nasty! I'm very wary of continuing myself. Unfortunately I can't control the things other people say or how they go about saying them. Especially when I'm not on top of everything said and several timezones away. I did talk to those in my support that were going overboard but had the group's rules been enforced it never would have gotten so out of hand. She did apologize and chill after we talked. I personally feel like I handled myself well considering the things that were thrown at me and assumptions made. I understand that Excel Dragonz is a somewhat bigger name out there and I'm a nobody but I've answered what has been asked and he's said very little.

Brandice, you have done all the correct things. IMO, there is no reason to defend yourself. That is why, when posting a review, it's best to post it here, irrelevant comments are discouraged & if they become bashy the poster will get a vacation. Facebook is not the place to try and sort something out. You can always post a link to the thread here and let them come here and comment.

Yes, he did the right thing and refunded your money and allowed you to keep the dragon. Yes, you may spend more to get her well than you paid for her, but she will thrive in your care.

The pictures from the sales ad only show the dragon from behind.

Originally Posted by BeardieBrandice

Facebook did indeed get nasty! I'm very wary of continuing myself. Unfortunately I can't control the things other people say or how they go about saying them. Especially when I'm not on top of everything said and several timezones away. I did talk to those in my support that were going overboard but had the group's rules been enforced it never would have gotten so out of hand. She did apologize and chill after we talked. I personally feel like I handled myself well considering the things that were thrown at me and assumptions made. I understand that Excel Dragonz is a somewhat bigger name out there and I'm a nobody but I've answered what has been asked and he's said very little.

What else can he say? He doesn't have to stop selling dragons. He doesn't have to answer your questions outside of this transaction. I'm not surprised that a seller saw a nasty thread and didn't want to get involved. He refunded your money and you declined to ship the dragon back. As far as I understand it. You want a pound of flesh too and it's just not gonna happen.

You've done about all you can. So has he.

He would be wise to do a better job keeping his dragons to avoid this in the future. As far as I know the BOI threads don't get deleted.

Originally Posted by Michael Brown

So you have the dragon + money. He refunded you in full correct?

I’d venture to guess that you received a picture of this dragon prior to shipping? Because I can see the MBD from that picture you posted, arms look swollen, typical for early stages of MBD where the bones in the arms tend to break down in an attempt to supplement itself with vitamins lacking in diet / habitat.

Regardless, this animal does not appear to be on deaths door, is it at all possible he was unaware to the extent of its issues? This does not appear to be a case of extreme neglect, more than likely just improper husbandry. Also you state “extremely constipated” yet vet wrote “dehydrated / possibly constipated”. See my issue? An animal can exhibit early signs of MBD in a very short period of time. Your vet states that it is most likely reversible. A vet would not state this if it was not a mild case. I’ve received animals with mild – severe MBD, and a vet will not state it is reversible if it is not mild, as most of the times you can stop the progression, but the issues are not reversible.

Also, the fecal exam that produced tested positive for pinworms and protozoa, are either of those even something serious? I am not an expert with bearded dragons, but animals all have some sort of colonization of bacteria / bugs. Some are not treated unless there is an issue. Are these deadly bugs for dragons? I am not sure.

I mean this has been a mega pain in your butt, and I am glad you were very responsible and brought the dragon to the vet, but how much are you out $ wise? Did you get prophylactic treatment for your other animals? Are you considering bringing any of the other animals to the vet? Or did you isolate properly to prevent that?

I am not entirely concerned with Aaron selling animals until he weighs in on this. I also do not think he should be crucified until his side is articulated. There are two sides to every story, and he did refund you. Maybe he completely disagreed with you, but did the right thing because you did the right thing and brought it to a vet.

I guess my question is, what more could he have done for you? You have the money and animal… Did he need to show extreme empathy? Give you $1,000 on top of the refund? Pay for the vet bills and give you a free animal? Halt all animal sales to give a global announcement that all his animals have a clean bill of health? I am just confused.

I don’t see this swelling in the arm, the arm in that photo is on the edge of the scale so the pressure is making it look wider, that’s not swelling...