Terri Sommella Fire and Ice Dragons -- Nightmare

"We do Claim to have high Morals, high Integrity, and honety In Ten years we have had less than 5 issues, and we believe we resolve all of them to the customers satisfaction, or certainly did our best to."

Bruce, How about resolving my issues ? Remember, broken cages, broken promises, misleading info, unprofessional interactions. Remember way back in Nov. when I ordered 3 cages, and to this day I am still trying trying to recoup my $$. I know this is not the thread to start this, so I will start a new thread, and tell a very interesting story about Sunshine cages, Bruce and Sam, and broken cages. Stay tuned....

Bruce or Johnathon or whomever is using that log in sunshinedragons, you did more damage to yourself by posting the same freaking post, what six times so far (and counting), to all the different posters comments on this thread. Do yourself, and your company, and your coworker, and us, a favor, practice what you preach

Originally Posted by sunshinedragons

Now for the last time we will not post or respond to any Post again.

Had you just posted the one response people may have taken those "attaboy" referrences with some seriousness, now I think you have turned everybody off and those comments are worthless, trolling spam now.

Originally Posted by reptilebreeder

Bruce or Johnathon or whomever is using that log in sunshinedragons, you did more damage to yourself by posting the same freaking post, what six times so far (and counting), to all the different posters comments on this thread. Do yourself, and your company, and your coworker, and us, a favor, practice what you preach



Had you just posted the one response people may have taken those "attaboy" referrences with some seriousness, now I think you have turned everybody off and those comments are worthless, trolling spam now.

Originally Posted by reptilebreeder

Bruce or Johnathon or whomever is using that log in sunshinedragons, you did more damage to yourself by posting the same freaking post, what six times so far (and counting), to all the different posters comments on this thread. Do yourself, and your company, and your coworker, and us, a favor, practice what you preach



Had you just posted the one response people may have taken those "attaboy" referrences with some seriousness, now I think you have turned everybody off and those comments are worthless, trolling spam now.

Uhhh.....Bruce? Isn't this thread about Terri? Nice plug but that to me is a bunch of garbage. I am a total outsider to the whole Bearded Dragon scene. But I have an opinion about you and your business tactics and from what I see....not too impressive.

I really don't see a "lynch mob mentality" here like you stated. It is just a whole bunch of common observations put into words. If they were all false accusations....I sure the hell wouldn't be sitting and letting this happen to me. Where's Terri? Why can't she respond? It can't hurt her business any more than it has.

Nice work!! :eek3:

Bthacker

Sigh

While multi repeat post fill this board and others made an effort to bring some ethical practices of a breeder to the public (which we seem to catch heck for doing... tough it will not stop me or others from exposing her scams) Terri has scammed again.... while this thread was going on! This one I want to prove is false and she is using the self set up registry to "certify" her false claims, along with her "broad" listed below:

Dr. Thomas Ryan, DVM - Feathers
Scales & Tails Veterinary Hospital
Westminster, MD

Steven Gill
Westminster, MD (but as far as I know he is in the UK)

Darby Cunningham - AAA Reptile Supply

and some guy only known as John - Chameleon Paradise

On her registry she list this

Upon reciept of application and successful payment, your application will reviewed by the Color Morph and Pattern Registry board, and at this time you may be asked for more information regarding your new Pattern/Morph including breeding details, husbandry lineage, etc. If approved, you will recieve documentation certifying you or your orginization as the originator for the Morph/Pattern, and standards will be declared at that time.

BTW: those misspellings above and below are from her site, not my misspelling

Regarding the citrus line, hee wonderful board she appointed, approved her as the originator of the citrus line just 2 months ago.. what a joke

Citrus - bearded dragon - lizard classification
Submitted by: Terri Sommella
Aproved by an independant panel on: 12/03/2004
http://www.cmpregistry.com/index.php...ragon&subsub=3
Terri did not have dragons until 2002, below are sites archived online dating back to 1999 and proves this line existed before she even had bearded dragons and who are in fact the people that worked years to develop this line and have now been slapped in the face by this so called board and her.

Here are dragons of the citrus line and called Citrus long before she even was Fire and Ice, If you have a citrus, this is where they came from, not her, no matter what she tells you.....perhaps we can not do anything about her self styled organizations/boards/panels and endorsing her false claims, but we certainly can expose them and give the people credit that did work and develop them! There are in achieves online from 1999-2001, the archive date is in the URL

2001 ( a year before she had dragons) Aaron Kosins of DragonAddict
http://web.archive.org/web/200110240...m/pictures.htm
Note the last listing and click on it.... citrus dragons - Sandfire Yellow/Yellow Red Desert X CITRUS
http://web.archive.org/web/200110240...m/pictures.htm
Note the Citrus baby, Citrus sub adult and Citrus mother

2000 (2 years before she had dragons) Atomic Lizard Ranch Paul & Collette Latimer, the nicest couple you would ever want to met and do so much with bearded dragons in the US early on.
http://web.archive.org/web/200003052...ic/index1.html
Note the Citrus Dragons mentioned on the front page: Yellow , Citrus , Tangerine Phase

1999 (3 years before she had dragons) Tony from Yellowdragon.com, who took a yellow from Atomic Lizard Ranch and crossed it with a Sunburst from Kevin Dunne of Dragons Den Herps
http://web.archive.org/web/199902020...om/bdragon.htm
Last phase listed: "Citrus" Phase
This phase is obtained by crossing a "Sunburst" male with a yellow female

A SUNBURST MALE.... the line Kevin Dunne originated years before... A yellow female(also called citrus) from Atomic Lizard ranch..... both that were working with the citrus line (and calling it that) as early as 1999..... 3 years before Terri first contacted these people to buy the dragons from them, that she now claims to have originated. People, don't be fooled..... check!

So Terri, how did you create a line that existed years before you ever had any dragons and can be proven online from other breeders archived websites? How can you register it officially with your "board" and your "registry" now to have your "certified" papers crediting you with it? How can you claim 15 years breeding.....when many of us have emails from you just 3 years ago starting out? Each time you claim it, we will call you on it! You didn't, you bought them from these people 2-3 years ago and are claiming their work.... outright thieving.. if this is your ethics, is it any wonder you would take a few hundred dollars from the very people you called " stupid" and you consider beneath you, "because they are reptile people and easy"? (remember sitting in my hotel room.. I sure do and your comments disgusted me then, this was all a SHOW ME THE MONEY game to you in an industry you think is low class) I think you need to be exposed for what you are and if others think that is trashing you.... IMO, you deserve it.

Paul, I am sorry you got bashed in this, I know your heart is in the right place, but your new too and would have no way of knowing she is lying, deceitful and conning so many people.. I would think real careful about breeding any of the dragons you got from her..... until she discloses the real bloodlines of them and you know what inbreeding genetics you are really working with. It amazes me that someone that trout's bloodlines like her, will not tell you the parentage of the dragons she sells you and you do not question them.... but MANY people know them that have been around for more than a few years and know where her breeders came from.

Now, I am done with this thread, I think the turth of this "breeder" is out.

I was going to buy from Fire and Ice and quickly changed my mind. I was looking for a very red beardie. I called Terri up she was great at first, I told her what I was looking for. She wanted $750 for a 7.5 dragon. She wouldn't send me a picture. After talking to her for awhile I found out that line breeding is invovled, since I don't believe in that I decided to pass on the animal. Needless to say, she became very angery at me. Just my experience, but I have heard others have purchased great animals from her. I never will though.
earthdragon23

Darn you, Bruce. I had thought you had just sent me an email (since you had stated you were no longer going to post on this thread)...Now I see it's posted here with some additional commintary (sp?). Well, I'm not going to retype all that I had already said to you (feel free to post the email - my account doesn't automatically save sent emails)...but I will reply to some things that were not in the email...

I knew EXACTLY what I was purchasing from Brandon. I was not purchasing a Snow, I was purchasing an animal from his line of Orange Snows. No, Snows are not pure white...but the description that Dragons Den has up describing the Snow line is what one should expect. Not a normal colored Dragon (unless someone bred a Snow to another type of Dragon...is that what you did? Obviously, with a line bred trait...You wouldn't end up with Snows, but normals that may have similiar variations as Snows). If I purchase something that is listed as a Snow, I expect it to be from a Snow x Snow breeding (my mistake I guess).

I've had Nova for what, 5 months? Over all this time, with all of the sheds he's had, he has not changed. As Snows should.

BOTTOM LINE...I was dissapointed with Sunshine Dragon's Snows. Period.

The red babies you had pictures of for sale on your site were very impressive (that was a few months ago). They look like what I would expect them to, being what they are. Your snow line is not what you had shown on your site (you have since removed that picture of the hatchling snow...I would think because you no longer have the Snow hatchlings). I do not believe you properly represented your Snow line on your site.

I had stated I was not going to dig through 45 pages of a thread to find my posts (and now, this thread has turned into 47 pages). I don't recommend you accuse me of being shady for not having the desire to dig through all of this mess.

After reading these boards for a month now, I have come to the conclusion that this hobby is littered with shadiness. All? By no means, but an alarming number of breeders have less than favorable ratings. I would NEVER buy from Fire and Ice or Sunshine . The only breeder I've spoken to thus far that has instilled any confidence is Daichu. She spent an hour on the phone with me even after finding out I'm not looking to pick another beardie for a couple months. Very informative and told me to call anytime with questions. We've had my son's beardie for 2 weeks and have fallen in love. If it weren't for Daichu, I'd go to the local petshop. Not as pretty as some of these high priced colored Dragons, but I could see what I was getting. If I'm going to spend 500.00 I'm going to pick it up in person. Not open it with the morning mail. Just my take on it.

I am sure people are exhausted reading this if they just started it... but since the rules of this site request that we continue on the same thread regarding a breeders... here is the current what I consider poor business practices. I hate spam and spammers and I really hate someone that steals from others to promote themselves

Terri or someone hired by her busniess Fire and Ice Dragons is harversting and spamming email addresses from other reptile related sites/forums/list (bearded dragons mostly) I guess I really should not be surprised. Remember when FLukers did this to launch Reptile Republic and what that lead to? (Anyone that does not know or remember can do a search on this site of Flukers or Reptile Republic and see it)

I and many others were spammed with a copy of her "NEWLETTER" today which is basically a promotional ad for her dragons for sale, her registry that she wants people to pay her to register their animals on and this is driectly from the newsletter after announcing she is the president of it, but forgets to say she invented it and is the one that is pocketing the money for this service

provides registration and pedigree services to those collectors and purists seeking to raise the bar for the personal collections and the reptile industry as a whole.

PURIST?

Anyway, Spamming is a nuisance, stealing emails from others is being a thief.. whether you do it or hire someone to do it for you. I know they stole them from other sites as one of the "newsletters" I got from her/her representative was addressed to another Yahoo list that I moderate one, so came to me as the owner, so you know they sure did not sign up to receive email from her. Here is the header that came to me and at least a dozen others I know of and the return email to unsubscribe.

To: pogona-owner@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Dragon Tracks: December, 2005
From: "lisa voglesonger songbird productions" <dragonmama@optonline.net>

No Idea who Lisa Voglesonger-songbird productions is, but assume that must be who she hired to spam us all or harvest the emails from other sites from and put the newsletter together

Then comes the body of the Newletter, which is kind of funny as the majority of it is raving about herself, her CMPR registry and her dragons, but many links do not work, the one for what is available titled:
"For the Discriminating Buyer: Now Available"
takes you to this link: http://www.emailbrain.com/rwcode/ OOPS, I do not think they sell dragons there!

which is the name at the bottom of the email as Powered by Emailbrain and
Songbird Productions - 1675 Jockey Creek Drive, Southold, 11971, United States
which is probably the spam service she used, since the UNSUBSCRIBE LINK is to this:
http://www.emailbrain.com/RWCode/sub...=1133545139000

I do wonder if it was them who stole the emails with her paying them or her who stole them and supplied the emails to them. I can not imagine why if someone paid attention to what they were doing, they would send ANY to me, but then they may not have noticed it was me since they thought it was going to a yahoo list owner.

PLEASE BE CAUTIOUS OF THIS PERSON, look at what they are doing, have done and ask yourself if this someone you can trust your money and time to?

Just out of curiosity, how exactly do you "steal" an email address from sites/forums/lists? Wouldn't the owner of said email account have volunteered their email address at some point? I understand that some people may look at what this person is doing as spamming, but I guess I don't see how it constitutes theft.

Paul,

When you registered here on Fauna or any other site, you provided an email to them for the purpose of using thier service. That was the extent of what you authoirzed. You did not authorize someone else from somewhere else to come on those places and by using other means to harvest your email, that is called stealing (ei, a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully) and then to sell it to others or use it to send you uninvited emails to solicit you. That is called spam (ei n: unsolicited usually commercial e-mail sent to a large number of addresses )

Those are Websters definitions, not mine or "that some people may look at what this person is doing as spamming" it is spamming. Of course, people that do it or want to promote themselves that way, never do see it as SPAM. I think the usually line is there were just "helping others". An email was never given or provided to Fire and Ice for them to send out those newsletter or asked for by the owners of them, they harvested them or hired someone to get them from other sites.... thats stealing.

This site is fairly protected from harvesting emails, and people viewing your IP address, but many are not or can be harvested by ways not everyone knows, or by programs that can be used. I am not going to go into the details here of how it it is done and start a rush of more people spamming and harassing others.

A few years ago Fluker Farms/Reptile Republic did it to many reptile related sites/forums/list, I remember how many people on here and KS posted and were upset about it. Since then, bacause of what Flukers/Reptile Republic did, many sites have updated their forums and removed the ability for others to access that information so easily, but a lot of list and smaller forums still have the ability for someone to do it, like the one above that I am on and they used to get my email. Other's can hire someone to access that infomation.

Its the internet, many thing are possible if someone wants to pay for it and others are sneaky enough to do it. This thread alone shoudld tell you that you can make up names, add years to your actual experience, award your animals ribbons and trophies, make yourself president of multi business names and appoint yourself to board of directors of other made up ones to impress people and even claim to invent something you never were near.. some will even believe it and maybe you can make some money off them for awhile.. but that does not make it right, true or a honest person. It makes a con artist taking advantage of others.