Albino Ball Python Died!!

Adam, Sorry for your loss. He was beautiful.
IMPO and just about every snake book I ever read, the breeder should have never allowed a neonate that young to be put through all that stress. Every keeper and especially breeders should know how delicate reptiles are in their first few months of there lives and how to care for them. Moving them across the country at a month old shows care for something else and not the health of the animal to me.
I'm not sure anything can be done for your partner, he should have asked the age of the BP. But now maybe the seller will keep his neonates in his care for 2-3 months and make sure this won't happen again.
I don't let my babies go until they are at least 2 months old and are eating defrosted rats consistently. I believe this will help them get over the stress of new living conditions and new owners until they feel comfortable to eat in someone else's care.
Rob

Some animals age is a factor. But I feel that a young snake can be sold and thrive. If it was well taken care of. Also all babies are as only healthly as the mom was when she was bred.

I know that Rob knows this as he breed Veild and is you have eggs from an unhealthy female you will have a high mortality rate of babies. I have bought and sold out of the egg snakes and have had no problems as of yet.


The first few days all is new for a baby snake and I believe that no one should tell me the age of my animals before I sell.

I can see that is where a ban could start.

Just my thoughts.

Also I can see this should have been put in a differnt spot on the forum.

Sorry to here about this Adam!
Gilbert Thompson

Adam,

That really sucks about your python and I am sorry. I have had snakes die for no apparent reason, only to take them to the vet and have the vet tell me as much as I knew: nothing.
I have heard of gout, and it sounds like what CheriS is saying makes sense.
It may be something that if it is genetic and from that particular breeder's line, he may not believe your claims cause he honestly feels like his animals are 100% healthy and by no means is he trying to be shady, but simply doesn't believe it and may have had no bad luck with his parents.
It is a hard thing to figure out, since your snake died months after getting it and it ate fine for you for a while.
I am confused though. You stated that your friend bought the snake on 8/2 at the Daytona show and you received it on 8/5. You may have your dates mixed up as the Daytona show was on 8/17-8/18. So what I am wondering is when exactly was your python born?
Billy

oops! forgot my last name!
Billy Fraser

Also with regards to dates....why did wait until now to bring this to out? If the animal(s) died in the beginning of October, why wait until January?
Just curious....
Jon

I can appreciate the loss, but this is the business we chose. If their were no guarantees for that extended period of time, the loss is yours to incurr. Animals in general are sold on a basis of being "outwordly " healthy. I can assume their was no misrepresentation of the animal, and it was picked up "sight seen". Once the sale has been consummated, the obligation becomes yours. The loss of any animal is unfortunate, and although you may have been in the business of breeding for a considerable period of time, can only provide you with a better opportunity of making wise choices, but even under the best of circumstances, the final responsibility is yours. JERRY TRESSER

Thank you all for your kind words. Just to address a few of your questions right off the bat. With regard to the dates I laid out, I’d meant to outline the month/year and forgot that’s what I was doing with the 8/5 date. I was trying to convey the snake was in my care three days after her purchase and not that she was in my care on the 5th of August.

Regarding why I’ve waited as long as I have. I felt like many of you, that the buyer is responsible and if the animal dies it’s their loss. However, in speaking with the other breeder who had a ball python die under the same circumstances from the same breeder I felt there might be something else to this. After all, you have to admit loosing two snakes that you’ve produced is fairly odd over just a couple of month period.

With that in mind I contacted the breeder to get their feelings in the matter and see if they were aware of this or what their thoughts were. The breeder was understandably very defensive in the matter but almost too much so. Going so far as to say they knew their animals and it was not possible. I felt this was odd and as we spoke I started seeing things that worried me in their story.

1) The breeder mentioned they have the most genetically diverse line of Albinos in the Country but within 15 minutes of that told me they knew all the Albino Balls they produced because they didn’t produce more then 15 of them. Explainable yes but very much so odd in my opinion.

2) The breeder also mentioned the timeframe of the animal’s birth regarding how well he remembered the snake in question. Something that was not asked however, what was asked is if the animals (bought a yearling het at the same time) were both in great shape and feeding well, this was answered with a yes.

With that said I thought there might be more to this. If this were a $100 or even $1000 snake I wouldn’t have thought twice about the whole thing. I also think much of what you’re all saying would apply even more. However, given the dollar amount I think breeders of higher dollar snakes have a responsibility to not only their customers to give them well established animals and not fresh out of the eggs babies but to the snakes as well. John Romeo is a good example of this, I purchased a het Pied from him and as a 02 baby the snake came to me at 375 grams. Even today if I were to call him and say the animal died of the same things I’ve talked about he would do right on the situation, as would I. For that matter I purchased 1.2 pieds from a breeder and he went so far as to tell me if the male died on me he would lend me a loaner the first year asking nothing in return. I think the standard of customer service many higher dollar snake breeders show is far above and beyond what is expected or even needed.

I guess what I’m getting at here is that I mentioned to the breeder that while he has nothing in his terms to cover this and I feel there is a fair amount of evidence to conclude the error may have been on his end that I would feel as if the deal was made right by replacing that Albino with a het Albino. I feel that puts 65% plus of the money loss on myself and is very fair to us both.

I don’t want anything that isn’t right in this. Mainly I want to be sure somebody else doesn’t have this happen to them. Also, if the breeder has a total unwillingness to make anything in this situation right I want people to know this breeder is selling animals so young and if they die because of that is totally unwilling to accept any fault, not only will you be out the money but mainly the snakes are dying.

Hope that clears some things up and thanks a lot for reading this,

Adam Block

i guess it boils down to a question of obligation Their are some sellers who seem to feel its in their best interest to obligate themselves well beyond the agreed sale, while others do not. In either scenerio, it does not make one any better than the other, nor is the dollar amount of any consequence. A $ 1,000 loss to someone is just as painful to a $ 100. loss to someone else, so the money does not enter the picture either. What you are left with is the "risk factor" and that no one can forsee. You purchased an expensive snake, and you had it for an extended period of time, and you lost it. These things happen, and its an unforseen loss. Its just regrettable that the loss was when the snake was in your posession. JERRY TRESSER

Jerry, I want to be sure that I'm seeing what you're saying clearly. For this reason I'm going to phrase the same point differently.

What you're saying is that if somebody sells an animal. And say this snake has IBD (like gout incurable) and when you get the snake it looks to be in excellent health. You're saying that if it dies two months later because it was sold to you with IBD that the buyer is out the money and the seller has no accountability there?

On the same accord you're also saying that if a snake is sold to you with some protozoa and needs to be taken to the vet that the buyer is 100% responsible for any costs in bringing the animal back to health?

I'm only asking because from the looks of your statements you're telling people that under no circumstances would you refund a buyer their money or replace an animal after two months regardless of the snake’s cause of death. I’m only trying to be so clear as I don't think I know of many other breeders who would publicly admit this.

I offer a 6-month promise on my snakes so my customers know they will be doing well. This covers a genetic issue as well as poor feeding, biting or anything else. I've also refunded a person their money two years after the fact on a snake that was sent as a male and turned out to be a female.

The reason I purchased from this breeder is because of the value of the snake. I was assured that I was getting a healthy animal free of any troubles at the time of purchase. Because there is nothing to address the issue of health on their site I took those words that the animal was healthy at face value when in fact the animal was not healthy at the time of purchase. The underlying health problem at the time of purchase is what ultimately causes her death.

Adam Block