Papuan Hatchling Feeding Issues (continued)

On December 24, 2006 Kierkegaard, my hatchling Papuan python, ate a live rat fuzzy. (More precisely, he slept beside it until it was dead, then decided to eat it as I was removing it from the cage). This was the first thing he had eaten since I acquired him on November 26, 2006: I also believe it was his first meal.

Since that time he has not eaten again. He has been given a dose of Flagyl and Panacur by our vet (Dr. Steven Wyler, who is excellent), and has checked out as healthy in all other particulars, save his appetite or absolute lack thereof.

I do not have steady access to live mouse or rat pinks and fuzzies. I can get them occasionally at one pet store near me: most other stores in my area refuse to sell anything but adult live feeders. While I may be able to get another pink or fuzzy within a couple weeks, I can't be sure when the next ones will come in... and I'd really like to get Kierkegaard on f/t for everyone's sake. (I so do not want to be dealing with a 13'+ snake that will only eat live piglets and rabbits). So while I will probably try live again in the near future, I'm hoping to find some trick that will get him taking frozen/thawed pinks regularly.

At present I'm trying the seclusion approach. I've covered his container with sari fabric, thereby blocking his view of the outside world. Save for occasional changes of his water dishes, I'm bothering him as little as possible and introducing a food item (currently mouse pinkies) each week. If he doesn't take that one, I figure that next week we'll try again. This appears less stressful on Kierkegaard and is definitely FAR less stressful on me.

According to Dr. Wyler, force-feeding will only be required if we start seeing emaciation, listlessness & c. -- and so far he appears perfectly active, alert and healthy. So I'm guessing the only thing to do now is sit this one out and wait patiently. But just in case, any other pointers will be greatly appreciated. We have previously tried, without success: f/t mouse pinks, f/t rat fuzzies, f/t mouse hoppers, all of the above in an enclosed container, fuzzies in a pillowcase, brained fuzzies, fuzzies dipped in chicken broth, fuzzies wriggled on the floor, fuzzies dangled on hemostats, fuzzies dropped in his hide -- if there's a way to tempt a snake with a fuzzy, we've probably tried it already. But I'm always happy to hear something new.

This is more a last-stop-before-force-feeding approach, but what about assist-feeding? Basically, you just open his mouth, stick the nose of a smallish (relative to his usual prey item size) dead mouse in his mouth, then either *very* slowly put him somewhere dark and isolated, or just sit there with him absolutely rock-still as he eats. Many times, the snake will just automatically start swallowing the mouse once it gets over the shock of having it placed in their mouth. It's sort of a compromise: you aren't quite force-feeding, but neither are you entirely leaving him to his own devices.

Henry

Kevin,, I wouldn't worry about FT or what you might have to feed a few years down the road, if he doesn't eat your not going to have to worry about live pigs..
Have you tried egg white for scenting ? chick down? Frogs? Lizard? Often movement will get them to take, buzz that mouse around..

With tough cases I'll give them whatever they want to get them eating. When they are older and able to take a good fast I'll push the issue of getting them to eat FT.
I've given baby Chondro's and other non eaters- Lizards,Frogs, and even birds to get them to eat something. Assist and force feeding IMO are a last resort after everything else has failed, Shoving food down their throats just stresses them out !! stress and a starved snake are a recipe for a dead snake.

Find someone near you that has live fuzzies, often Petco will have some small mice come in with the rest. Or buy a pregnant mouse from a pet store or just explain to them why you need a fuzzy and if it cost you more well you have to get him to eat.. Good luck and keep us posted on how he does...Randy

Originally Posted by ravensgait

Kevin,, I wouldn't worry about FT or what you might have to feed a few years down the road, if he doesn't eat your not going to have to worry about live pigs..
Have you tried egg white for scenting ? chick down? Frogs? Lizard? Often movement will get them to take, buzz that mouse around..

We tried a frog: no interest. We tried chicken broth: no interest. Haven't yet tried chick down, egg white or scenting with geckos or anoles. I just tried another mouse pink this morning, with no immediate success although I suppose there's always hope he'll eat it before I remove it tomorrow morning.
If I stumble into a steady source of live mouse or rat pinks -- or even find ONE store that has them -- I'll try that next. (Live baby quail would also be a great find).

As far as moving the prey goes: if you move it too quickly he gets scared and runs into his hide. If you move it too slowly he loses interest and wanders off. If you just leave it there he slithers around it. Only rarely have I even been able to get him interested enough to bite - and when he does that he lets go almost immediately.

Right now I'm thinking I will continue to offer him food until the weather warms up. At that point I may think about rehoming him with someone who has a steady supply of live food or who has more experience than I do with picky eaters. (Since my first snake was a Burm, I'm much more familiar with gluttonous herps than anorexic ones). I paid $350 for him and have already spent at least that much in vet care but would gladly give him away to someone who has the time and experience required to get him eating. Right now I'm more concerned about Kierkegaard's well-being than about any money I might be out of pocket for him.

Well lets see if we can keep you from having to get rid of him. Not sure where Elmhurst is how far from the Jersey border is it?? I have Baby Soft fur rats!!! as well as frogs lizards ETC,,I have baby Chondro's right now and they can be a bit trying to put it mildly lol.. So I keep these things in case of need... Drop me an email...Randy

Sorry to hear of your problem. I have raised 3 baby Apadora, and all were voracious eaters from the start, even 2 newborns. BUT, I kept them in sweaterbox/shoebox racks from the start so they were not stressed. How is his cage set up? What are the temps, humidity, hide situation, etc? Are you avoiding handling? Give me the cage details, maybe we can change something.....
J

Originally Posted by Jasin

Sorry to hear of your problem. I have raised 3 baby Apadora, and all were voracious eaters from the start, even 2 newborns. BUT, I kept them in sweaterbox/shoebox racks from the start so they were not stressed. How is his cage set up? What are the temps, humidity, hide situation, etc? Are you avoiding handling? Give me the cage details, maybe we can change something.....
J

Temps range from 81-82* on his cool side to 88-92* on the warm (I've been running them on the high end). He has a hide on his warm side and a hide on his cool side: he also hides beneath one of his water dishes. On the advice of my vet I've been misting daily: humidity is usually around 70-75%.

He's in an Iris sweaterbox (app. 30" x 13" high). This is large for a 30" snake, but he was a neurotic madly striking little demon in a smaller tub and has only eaten since we moved him to this box. The box is generally covered and we're handling him as little as possible until he starts eating regularly.

I've now gotten him to eat twice (both times rat fuzzies) in the two months I've owned him. While monthly feedings are far from ideal he will survive for a good while on that schedule. So for now I'm trying the "cover the box with Sari cloth, leave him alone, and try to feed him every 5-7 days for a couple minutes, longer if you see feeding strikes and less if he just seems stressed" approach.

That's good he's eaten a few times now. It sounds like your set up is ok. I would maybe spray every other day. Is this a WC, or Captive Born from Bushmaster?

Originally Posted by Jasin

That's good he's eaten a few times now. It sounds like your set up is ok. I would maybe spray every other day. Is this a WC, or Captive Born from Bushmaster?

He is CH from Bushmaster Reptiles: I got him from Regal Reptiles on November 26, 2006 at the White Plains show.

On the advice of my vet I've been misting daily: humidity is usually around 70-75%.

I know I harp on about this, but IMHO, it's warranted: long-fiber sphagnum moss. It holds huge amounts of water, is great for maintaining humidity for weeks at a time without re-moistening, and never molds. Pop some into his hides, and humidity issues will vanish (I grow tropical plants on my apartment windowsill, in part thanks to this stuff). It should be available at any garden center, as well as Lowes and Home Depot (and sometimes Walmart), though it may be sold as "orchid moss" (it's used as a potting medium). If in doubt, check the small print on the bag.

Henry