Need suggestions please!!!

Hi everyone...OK,,heres the deal;;;i sold this lady 3.3 yearling ball pythons about a week and a half ago..Now,,,she has emailed me saying that there isnt a female in the whole lot..NOW,,,i popped these animals on three seperate occasions((which i do with all my ball pythons)) just to insure that they have everted correctly,,,and i know that they are in fact 3.3!!!!! She says that she feels that she has been given the shaft...What would be the best course of action to take??? I know what i want to tell her,,,but i was very polite((which is unusual for me when i get an email from someone saying i have given them the shaft))..What do you think???
 Jeff

Jeff.... very easy, buddy.... tell her to take them to a QUALIFIED HERP VET, for HIM/HER to sex the snakes (at HER expense), if they are 6.0, you owe her whatever she wants to do.... if, on the other hand, they prove out to be 3.3.... no further action need be taken! If YOU are SURE of the sexing.... tell her! The ONLY way you will reimburse her, is with a WRITTEN DOCUMENT ON THE VET'S LETTERHEAD attesting to their sex... good luck???

Now, watch em end up being 0.6!! Then what??? lol
....Neil

Jeff,

Ask her also how did she sex them now. Depending on her answer you might know if she has actually sexed them again or not.

Best regards,

I recieved another email from this lady a little while ago,,,and her response to my previous email was that her husband is a &quot;&quot;pre-vet&quot;&quot;,,and there is no mistaking that they are all males...They popped them,,same as i did...now,,,my problem is that i know how to pop animals,,and popped all these on three seperate occasions,,,and it was 3.3....They are not even a full year old yet,,,so if they were in fact males,,,wouldnt you think that out of three different popping sessions,,,i could have everted the hemipenes?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> I dont even have a problem popping an adult ball!!!!As far as getting a letter from HER vet,,,what if they are good friends???SHE already said that her hubby was in vet school,,,so her vet and her husband could be really good friends,,and he could just vouch for them,,ya know??? I think its a case of buyers remorse...
&nbsp;Jeff

Jeff,

Did she actually say she popped 1 year-old ball pythons in order to sex them? Maybe you should post the question on the ball python forum to get more opinions on that matter.

Here is what I would propose. Ask her to ship them back. Find a vet (or a well known herp &quot;expert&quot that will probe them for you, and will certify their sex in writing. Let her know the outcome. If you are wrong you will have to reimburse her. If you are right the snakes are shipped back to her. You can agree on splitting shipping costs.

Best regards.

Hi Jeff,

I am a bit curious as to your, and this lady's husband's ability, to consistently evert hemipenes on one year old Ball Pythons. It has always been my understanding that Ball Pythons are one of the most difficult snakes to sex by the 'popping' method even when neonates, let alone when yearlings or adults. I have on many occasions sexed them by probing, and this sometimes is difficult with them due to the strength of the tail muscles that they can exhibit. I know other people who are very adept at 'popping' who sometimes have great difficulty with Ball Pythons and come to me to probe them to be sure they got it right.

Since you are saying that you 'popped' them as 3.3 and the lady says they 'popped' them as 6.0, I would think it possible that the woman is correct. I say this because if you attempted to pop them and all 6 were males, but three were stubborn and strong, and did not relax the tail muscles, then it is possible that their hemipenes would not evert. On the other hand if this woman or her husband honestly everted a hemipenes on all 6, well I have never seen females with a hemipenes.

I go along with the previous poster who said to ask her to return them to you. I differ on who pays for shipping as you will see. Make sure she pays for the return shipping with the stipulation that if you were wrong you will refund this to her. Once you receive them, make sure they are the same snakes you sent her. Then have them probed by someone other than yourself, preferably someone who is unaware of the problem, who is unaware of your opinion that they are 3.3, and unaware of her opinion that they are 6.0. In other words the person sexing them should be in the blind to all of this. This will allow them to be more objective in their determination of sex. This person does not have to be a vet, but should at least be a reputable commercial dealer of herps, or well known private breeder. The cost of this at a vet could be quite prohibitive depending on where you live.

If they probe out to be 0.6, send her a refund of the cost of the snakes, the cost of the initial shipping and the cost of the return shipping. If they probe out to be 3.3, give her the option of now paying for the probing and the return shipping to her OR send her a refund of the cost of the snakes, but not of the original or return shipping. If she chooses the refund of the cost of the snakes, tell her you will no longer do business with her. If she refuses to return the snakes to you (prepaid return shipping) then you can start to consider the possibility that she could be up to no good. I hope you had pictures of each one of these guys that you sold to her.

I for one would like to hear her side of all of this too, just to get the whole story from both viewpoints.

Good luck.

Best regards,
Glenn Bartley

whoops that one line should have read &quot;if they probe out to be 6.0 (and not 0.6) then send her a refund&quot;

Okay,,,first off,,,,ON EACH AND EVERY SNAKE I SELL,,I FIND A IDENTIFYING MARK((known only to me)),,AND TAKE A PIC OF IT,,AND SAVE IT ON MY DIGITAL CAMERA...I informed her last nite,,,that i needed a pic. of one certain animal,,with its left side showing,,and its hemipenes everted to even start to consider a refund...
(2) I do not have trouble popping adult balls,,,much less young ones...I have had these snakes since they were only 2 months old,,,and i have ppped them on diffeent occasions,,,just to make sure i was correct insexing them..As far as popping goes,,,it is alot easier than what people think...The trick is to find the correct medium between too easy and too hard...I have found this method to be very accurate..On the other hand,,probing ball pythons is extremely inaccurate,,,due to the fact that the females musk glands are nearly the same size as the hemipenes...I guess people vary in their ability to sex animals in different ways...I have found this method to work for me...On the other hand,,,&quot;&quot;probing&quot;&quot; has been difficult for me....Since she said that she has no problems popping them,,,i will await the pics i asked her to send...
&nbsp;Jeff

Well,,i havent heard anything from this customer today about sending me a pic with the hemipenes everted...I will keep all of you posted as to the outcome..
&nbsp;Jeff
gonna try and post a pic for all you emerald lovers...This is part of my breeding stock...Reserve yours today...aint she a beauty?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

I sure like your solution since you have a pic to make sure it is the right one. Sounds pretty simple and avoids unnecessary shipping of the animals.

As to the popping vs probing go with it if you are sure it is working. I always feel better with both methods, but I certainly am no expert in sexing BPs.

Best regards,
Glenn <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>