Cold Blooded Novelties

I've been out of the reptile community for almost 10 years now and just recently decided to get back into it and focus mostly on ball pythons. That being said I actually forgot about this area of the internet.

I contacted Frank at CBN about an ad on KS for an albino female. I asked him if he had more because I was looking for groups of things I want to avoid spending too much of the budget on shipping expenses in new acquisitions. Frank called me (as I understand he does not like texts) and he replied he had 2 yearling females for sale. We agreed on price shipped and waited for Monday to . (This week)

Shipment arrives. Box is crisp and looks untattered. I note that in pen it is written " live harmless reptile 1 python regius." It has a single piece of tape to both sides closing the flaps tightly and the fed ex label covers the top tape.

I go out to my truck and open the box to be polite of others in the fed ex center and pry away the lid of foam insulation. The heat pack taped neatly inside folded newspaper to the lid. First bag comes out, is obviously recycled as it says "Frank and a different morph with sex listed". I pop the zip tie and pull out a nice looking albino as described (I've not confirmed sex yet) and go to the second bag.

Low and behold the second bag has no snake. This bag still has the zip tie and is also marked "Frank and a differing morph with gender and date" which again I assume is a recycle as well. I immediately check the box for loose snake to no avail and inspect the bag finding a quarter size rip in the seam of the bag.

I also immediately email and text Frank to let him know that there is an issue. A short while later he calls and we coverse about the issue. He asks if the box looks like it's been opened and resealed and I reply that it has not. He then asks if there is any holes in the box and I reply that there is not. He speculates that maybe a fed ex employee may have taken a snake and I reply that it does not appear to have been tampered with. He then asks me if there is a hole in the bag and I say yes.

I then ask him if he wants to call fed ex and he denies it and says this sort of thing has happened before and no one loses but the seller. I tell him I've never had a problem.

Frank then tells me he will refund me one snake. He does refund me the money for one which is fine.

Now... I'm at a loss for what happened in this transaction. Being that I was NOT there when he packaged I don't know anything on his end. I SUSPECT that he didn't have a second female or sold it to someone else. I could be completely off tilt thinking this but receiving one snake seems odd. I've only had one bad experience with shipping by a newer breeder that I bought az mountain kingsnakes from and he cooked them with heat packs.

So the moral of the story is that this transaction seems off and while I'm not out any money over it after he refunded the cash but I still feel the transaction wasn't up and up. The snake I did receive looks healthy and as advertised but I still don't feel right about the missing second one. I won't say Frank cheated but I probably won't purchase from him again just to stay out of awkward situations.

Yes I realize that some could say I may have just said I didn't get it and I have no way to prove my end either but Frank did pay up quickly without much protest.

I guess I'll just say note to buyers: buyer beware and make sure you cover your bets. I won't say anything outright negative because this is such an odd experience. I also posted this because as a basically new guy back in the business I want my name to have no stigma associated with any wrong doing. This entire post is a tale of how we should all be cautious in our dealings regardless of whom we are dealing with.

Definitely an interesting situation. If there was no hole in the box there is no way the snake could have gotten out. I'm glad he made things right by paying for the missing snake.

Unfortunately it defeated your purpose of trying to get multiple snakes on one shipping fee ... so the single snake cost you more than you would have wanted.

It may be possible he bagged them, left the box open till he got to FedEx & the snake escaped during transportation. I usually don't seal the box till I am at FedEx.

Have you notified Frank, of this thread?

No I didn't notify him of it. The point wasn't really to stir up any animosity. He refunded said missing snake. It's more to post an odd transaction so that others may learn from it. I can't fathom that anyone stole the snake as the box was in perfect condition. Actually I attempted to highlight how impeccable the box and packing looked. It's an overall neutral transaction given the outcome.

Regardless of where the snake is now I still have never had this happen and can only speculate what happened. Your theory of it going rogue prior to taping the box closed is just as viable. And I openly admit that Frank never accused me of pulling a fast one. It's just a very strange tale to tell hence my paying the community a service and sharing my experience.

Absolutely amazing Gabe absolutely amazing. You quoted our conversation almost word for word Except leaving a major part of the conversation out. When we established the box was un opened and the second bag was zip tied but had a small hole in it all on your word. I never asked for photos to prove what you was saying was in fact true I took you on your word. The very next thing I said which you conveniently omitted was animals were bagged before I left for work in the morning placed in the box and left on my desk at work until it came time to seal with heat pack and drop off at FedEx.
I did not argue I did not play the blame game I simply said it must be loose here at work and as soon as I get home from work I will refund a partial payment.
For you to as you say ( I SUSPECT that he didn't have a second female or sold it to someone else. I could be completely off tilt thinking this but receiving one snake seems odd.)
is a complete load of shit and you know it. Before payment was even sent I told you I had 2 more that just hatched so you knew that was not my only one.
Give Melissa the cookie as she figured out exactly what happened before I made my comment.
Do not let the facts get in the way of a good story though nice job

Well Frank you turned a neutral post into a negative. You can take the negatives and twist that into the entire plot seeing as I gave you stellar reviews regarding everything else.

You did say you had hatchlings and they had nothing to do with the transaction as I was buying your yearlings. You also said nothing about the preboxing or the trip to fed ex.

Not only did I say that you immediately refund the single missing snake but that you didn't accuse me of shenanigans either.

Things happen. I understand it. But if you don't like my speculation about what happened, I cannot help you. With the attention to detail in regards to all other aspects of the shipping the issue of a snake going rogue from a hole in a bag sucks at best.

I'm sorry you feel compelled to dwell on the negative part as I was let down on my end as well. I'll continue to give you props on your packaging and your communication timelines but I will not back off from sharing stuff with the forum. That's what this place is for... sharing experiences.

And I could still send you pictures of box and bag with zip tie. I didn't throw that out. The bag with the snake, I did, as it went into it's rack with the bag to give it a hide until I cleaned the room today and threw that one out.

I'd have video'd the box but you said you have an 90s style flip phone. Believe me, I didn't have a great answer on how this went either and didn't know how to show you anything.

I understand the OP's suspicion in regards to this activity. Encouraging a sale based on information of looking for someone with multiple snakes for sale, could let a small lie tilt the buyer in favor of a particular seller, then when the issue arises the seller could immediately refund the money and not question it as he knew there was only one in the box. Of course, it's speculation and only possible that foul play existed. It is still just as possible though that the seller did in fact lose the snake during the time it was left open pre-shipment. However, when has a seller ever refunded money without proof that an animal was missing? That doesn't scream "great guy" that screams "I knew already".

Having said that. An innocent conscious is typically clean and speaks calmly. A guilty mind is quicker to anger as a plan unfolds beneath them. The response Frank gave is more than enough to encourage myself to avoid. Not that he may, or may not, be acting with the purest of intentions, but the attitude that rose from a post that was not even a "complaint".

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

I understand the OP's suspicion in regards to this activity. Encouraging a sale based on information of looking for someone with multiple snakes for sale, could let a small lie tilt the buyer in favor of a particular seller, then when the issue arises the seller could immediately refund the money and not question it as he knew there was only one in the box. Of course, it's speculation and only possible that foul play existed. It is still just as possible though that the seller did in fact lose the snake during the time it was left open pre-shipment. However, when has a seller ever refunded money without proof that an animal was missing? That doesn't scream "great guy" that screams "I knew already".

Having said that. An innocent conscious is typically clean and speaks calmly. A guilty mind is quicker to anger as a plan unfolds beneath them. The response Frank gave is more than enough to encourage myself to avoid. Not that he may, or may not, be acting with the purest of intentions, but the attitude that rose from a post that was not even a "complaint".

And I found the thinly veiled negatives by the OP to be enough to make me question his motives. The comments about the "obviously recycled" bags tells me it bothered him that they were reused but he probably knew he'd get no support so he said it the way he did. He also essentially said he believes the seller lied to him about having other snakes.

As I was reading the first, and pretty much only, thing I thought of was he put the snake in the bags and before he could seal it and send it it escaped through the rip. About the only thing that tells me is he needs to inspect his "obviously recycled" bags more closely and I'm sure he knows this.