LLL Reptile - Unhappy

I ordered a batch of 250 waxworms from LLL Reptile a week or so ago. The little guys seemed fine 07-26 morning; I pulled them out for a 2nd feed for my Leos and forgot to put them back in the fridge. When I got home at about 10:30pm I had a thought to treat my Tokays. I opened the lid and their were these little white worms at the bottom of the tub. I was like ok...These are either baby waxworms that happened to hatch or they're maggots. I emailed LLL Reptile inquiring on what they might be...

LLL Reptile reply ---

Unfortunately without seeing them in person, I cant tell you for sure. The best thing I can tell you is that they are harmless if they are either one. If you are storing them in your fridge, chances are they are small waxworms, but I cant say for sure Should be harmless.

So, I sent a picture (attached at bottom) of what I was seeing...At this point, I was extremely concerned...

My reply ---

If they're maggots, that's not OK. I'm really thinking they ARE maggots now, because they're eating a dead waxworm that's in the tub. Is this how all your waxworms come? Infested? I just threw out 1/2 my container of 250 because I am not feeding my healthy animals infested prey.

LLL reply ---

Where are you keeping the container of waxworms? Are they kept in the fridge, or at room temperature? Let me know.

My reply ---

The container they came in. I keep them in the fridge when I don't need them. I took them out yesterday morning, I found the maggots last night (they'd been out at room temperature all day). I've never had any problems with waxworms before...Usually though I'd pick a small amount up at a local pet store.

LLL reply ---

I have never had a bug issue or a complaint about them. Maggots cant live at that cold of temp though to my knowledge. So unless you had some die off, and maggots attacked them, I would guess something else. What I would tell you though, regardless of where they came from, is as disgusting as maggots are, people feed them to many, many reptiles. I dont think that they came from our supplier, but I wont say for sure obviously, anything is possible. However, they will not, in any way, harm a lizard Hope that helps a bit. I would always store them in the fridge though, and take only what you need out of the container to feed. That is what I do with mine. Good luck

Does anyone see what's wrong with this statement??? He's telling me "regardless of where they came from, is as disgusting as maggots are, people feed them to many, many reptiles. However, they will not, in any way, harm a lizard."

I didn't order WAXWORMS with a side of MAGGOTS for my prize leos!

I've pretty much thrown my hands up in the air in frustration and checked them on the list of never ordering from them again. I'm out about $7 of waxworms, but what can I do?

they sure look like maggots to me. As far as what to do - (ASSuming you don't want to feed them to anything) you can pick out the waxworms, or not - your choice, then seal the whole container, and drop it in a convenient garbage can...like at a gas station, supermarket, or fastfood place. It's too bad that your container is wasted/contaminated, but tis the season for such things. Under the circumstances, I wouldn't say that LLL is responsible.

That's really gross. Looks like there are several dead waxworms in the cup. When I get waxworms I dump the cup out into a larger rubbermaid container and keep them at regular room temps. I always make sure to pick out (with tongs!) any dead waxworms, otherwise they attract what I like to call crap flies (only I replace the word crap with another word that starts with the letter S), and in turn you get maggots. Pretty nasty.

Were there a lot of dead waxies in the cup when you received them?

That's the thing. Their was one dead waxworm in the morning...When I came home at night (10:30ish) their were a ton more. The ones on the right were nothing but the outer shell...Like the maggots ate them out. But how could this happen in 12 hours of this tub being exposed to a room if it happened here???

They are maggots, and if you are leaving these guys out all day, you can expect them (especially if you have some dead waxworms in the container as you did. I do not know exactly what type of maggot they are or the exact type of fly that produced them, but I do know that flys have a very short lifespan, and reproductive cycle. This may not have happened before if the weather was cooler, but it is hot through most of the country, and flys are just dying to get in the house and then of course find a suitable place to lay their eggs before they die. I can't think of a better place than a little pile of dead waxworms. To a fly a dead waxworm is like ready made baby food just waiting for the baby maggots to hatch and dig in. Umm umm, now that's good eatin! LLL gave you good advice. The maggots are harmless if eaten, and you should avoid leaving the worms out at room temp for any real amount of time.

I don't think you're reading what I've written fully...

They're kept in the fridge when I'm not feeding...That morning I left them out from 11ish to 10:30ish...

Their was ONE dead waxworm in that cup when I left in the morning...

My house is kept around 73 degrees...Hardly hot...

I highly doubt the life cycle from laying to hatching for flies is within 10 hours...I will ask my brother though; he's an entomologist and should be able to shed some light on the question...

Also, in the three years I've been useing waxworms...I have NEVER had this happen no matter what the temperatures...This is the first batch I've actually kept in the fridge because of how many I had purchased.

How much did these worms cost? Just interested to know as I'm not a lizard person and have never bought any.

I guess you seem to think that they sent you the maggots which I suppose is possible. So what do you want them to do about this???

I'm no fly expert but one morning last week I put a frozen Emerald out on an ant mound for them to clean. Had to be around 8 in the morning when I put it frozen solid on the mound. Checked on it that evening and the ants were hard at work but there were also little maggots already crawling around in it. So I think it would be hard to say for sure where the ones you have came from. Randy

LLL had them at $14/shipped for the 250. I lost about half (and "lost" I mean I took the container...maggots, waxies and all...put them in a bag, dumped bleach in...Tied it up and threw it in the garbage).

I just did a total scrub down of the reptile room too. I'm really grossed out by this.

I don't think they sent me maggots...I think their were eggs in their that hatched once they were warmed up from sitting out for a few hours. They do not produce them either...They get them from a supplier elsewhere (whom probably ships directly to LLL customers). I let them know my concerns about the quality and infestation...

I'm also extremely upset that he's giving me the the advice to feed the maggot infested waxies to my Leos!

I am not a fly or maggot expert but i would not think that feeding a maggot to a lizard would be harmfull considering some people eat maggots. I even watched a show on food network ounce where they were visiting someone that included insects in their regular diet, they made a salad dressing of sorts using a blender and a whole bunch of maggots. Apparently, they all thought it was great but YUCK!!! lol

Originally Posted by blckkat

I'm also extremely upset that he's giving me the the advice to feed the maggot infested waxies to my Leos!

I can understand your frustration but this is mainly an emotional response. One of three things will happen if any maggots get in with your lizards. Either they will be eaten, they will die, or they will turn into small flies. None of those is really awful. As James pointed out, it is fly season.

One other point I would make is that waxworms, mealworms, superworms and the like are all insect larvae. Maggots are...insect larvae. Insectivorous lizards will eat them if they find them appealing.

As for how the eggs might have gotten in with them, that could have happened when the worms were being placed from a large container into a smaller one. I imagine whoever shipped them did many at one time, not just yours. The containers may have been out and open for an hour or two and that would have been more than long enough. They were warm in shipping for a day or two, then matured and hatched out when you left the worms out for half a day.

To avoid them, follow Kelli's advice.