Dan Felice - Good Guy

sorry, that link isn't working...try this one:
http://biology.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/Taxa/Drymar.htm
Scroll down and click on the second link under Resources.
Then click on the word erebennus.

Of course you think I'm "wrong on this one". Why wouldn't you? You're a friend of Dan's who has made it publically obvious that you despise me as per this post composed by near the beginning of this thread...

"The person you are referring to is the same troll that has attacked almost every person who frequents that forum. He is banned by Kingsnake on a weekly basis and comes back under a different name each time.
I know the person that the troll accused Dan of selling hybrids to. She owns Texas Indigos from other breeders and would know if she was sold a couperi/unicolor hybrid (which would probably not even resemble erebennus). I'd chalk that accusation up as BS
like everything else that comes out of that troll's mouth".

Now, given that you believe that everything that comes out of this troll's (my) mouth is BS, why would you entertain my post other than to attempt to lend credence to Dan's fish stories in an effort to discredit me? Never mind, I just answered my own question, lol.


"Chris, I'm just curious if you've ever seen an erebennus from the southern part of their range? I really don't think you realize how variable they can be. I've seen them as dark as couperi and almost as light as melanurus".

We're not talking about "dark" or "light" or how "variable" they "can" be. Those are crosses...period.

"I've seen them salmon colored on their venter and I've seen them almost white underneath".

Funny, I didn't see "salmon" or "white" in the photo of Dan's cross.

"Have you seen erebennus from Mexico?
The photo in your link does not show couperi influence at all".

I beg to differ.

"This is from the HERPETOLOGICAL JOURNAL, Vol. 11, pp. 157-165 (2001):
In Central America, Smith (1941) noted the existence
of hybrid zones between melanurus on one hand and
the taxa erebennus, orizabensis and rubidus on the
other. Additionally, juveniles and some adults of
erebennus, rubidus and unicolor display oblique dark
bars on the sides of the neck, which appear to be ho-mologous
with the marks seen in D. melanurus (no
orizabensis were examined). Although the sister taxon
to Drymarchon is unresolved, these dark marks appear
to be unique to these taxa, and can therefore be regarded
as a synapomorphy for these populations".

Post all the journals you want. It won't change the fact that the snake in the photo is a cross. Does the journal say that crossing an Eastern Indigo with a Unicolor Cribo cannot produce anything that resembles the snake in the photo? Of course not. But now the writer of your fancy journal can use the photo as a reference for what a true cross looks like. How cool is that?

"You asked for someone to show you a "verifiable" erebennus photo that is similar in appearance. I'm not sure how I can prove any erebennus photo to be verifiable in your eyes but here's a link to a very similar erebennus from a German Drymarchon website".

I couldn't access the pic, not that it matters. You just don't get it Gila. Nothing you post here will magically turn Dan's crosses into pure Texas animals.

"I don't think I'm going to change your mind on this and that's ok ....but I really think you're wrong on this one".

You can't change my mind because I know for a fact that they are crosses and have known it since the thread started and it is YOU who are "wrong on this one" (the difference being that I don't "think" so, I know so). I posted the pic because I know it's a cross and RECOGNIZED IT IMMEDIATELY! So answer just two questions Chris, although I doubt you'll answer directly or honestly.
After viewing this whole thread and the photo of Dan's offspring that I submitted here, is it your contention that after weighing the pros and cons of this thread, that you would buy any of those 02 offspring that Dan produced and sold as Texans and would you represent them as Texas Indigos with regard to future breeding and sale of further offspring from this lineage??? Perhaps you should re-read this thread and the testimony of my brother as well before answering the questions.

I know how much you want me to be wrong Chris because of your dislike for me, but I'm not wrong...you are. So sorry.

After viewing this whole thread and the photo of Dan's offspring that I submitted here, is it your contention that after weighing the pros and cons of this thread, that you would buy any of those 02 offspring that Dan produced and sold as Texans and would you represent them as Texas Indigos with regard to future breeding and sale of further offspring from this lineage??? Perhaps you should re-read this thread and the testimony of my brother as well before answering the questions.

Would I buy them? Probably not because I prefer darker colored erebennus w/ salmon coloration underneath. I wouldn't have any concern of them being hybrids though, they're just kinda ugly IMO. That's like asking you if you'd buy an ugly boa....you probably wouldn't just because there are better looking ones available. I wouldn't have any trouble representing those as erebennus though because that's exactly what they are.

I couldn't access the pic, not that it matters. You just don't get it Gila. Nothing you post here will magically turn Dan's crosses into pure Texas animals.

I thought you asked for a photo...sorry to distract you from your ranting with facts. Here's the photo you can't seem to access:

Anyway, I'll let you get back to your witchhunt Chris. I just thought I'd share some info in case anyone reading this was as unfamiliar with erebennus as you seem to be. Have fun.

"Would I buy them? Probably not because I prefer darker colored erebennus w/ salmon coloration underneath".

Probably not, lol? Because...blah, blah, blah...now you're just blowing smoke. You're too predictable.

" I wouldn't have any concern of them being hybrids though, they're just kinda ugly IMO. That's like asking you if you'd buy an ugly boa....you probably wouldn't just because there are better looking ones available".

Huh-whu? Let's stay focused, shall we? I didn't ask if you would buy them because of appearance, but with regard to the info submitted in this thread. Your drivel is suffocating.

"I wouldn't have any trouble representing those as erebennus though because that's exactly what they are".

Wrong. That's exactly what they are NOT, and you have nothing to support your little campaign to defend a creep who has a habit of getting others to speak in his defense while he clams up. Why does he remain silent? Glad you asked. Because he knows that anything he might add to this thread will be self incriminating. But by all means, please continue to speak on his behalf. But I digress. The fact that you are so wrecklessly willing to promote those offspring as pure speaks volumes about you character (or lack thereof) and business ethics. The fact that you "wouldn't have any trouble representing those as Erebennus" shows your lack of concern for the proper representation of snakes within the herp community, but more importantly, your lack of concern with regard to the purity of snakes in captive populations. Way to go pal. There's no turnin' back now, lol.

"I thought you asked for a photo...sorry to distract you from your ranting with facts. Here's the photo you can't seem to access:"

Thank you for finally admitting that my submissions are "fact"! That means alot to me. Thanks for the photo, which is totally irrelevant. Did you investigate the origination of that snake or the parents? Don't bother. It doesn't matter, lol.

"Anyway, I'll let you get back to your witchhunt Chris. I just thought I'd share some info in case anyone reading this was as unfamiliar with erebennus as you seem to be. Have fun".

Hmmm, lol. Almost Dan's exact words on KS, LOL. Perhaps he's dictating what you are submitting here. He seems to love the word "witchhunt". But where is the hunt??? I would liken your campaign to prove me wrong to a "witchhunt". Good luck!

Did you investigate the origination of that snake or the parents?

No, I didn't figure that this conspiracy had reached Germany....but since this has gone international, it's a good thing we have you assigned to the case.
...Go get him tiger!

LOL! Yeah, that's the only thing out of my last post that I would have attacked if I were in your shoes. Enough said. NEXT!

"Where is Jeff Nichols when Felice needs him? Since Nichols says he has pictures of the snakes that Felice sold him, why wouldn't he post them so that we can compare those snakes to the snake in Steve Fuller's picture"?

Heck with the pictures. I'd like to know why Jeff got rid of those "Texas" Indigos that his wife raved about upon their arrival as illustrated on her post on KS and where are they now? And perhaps Dannio can shed some light as to where the rest went. Perhaps the recipients of those offspring could shed some light on how Dan explained my presence on this matter since Dan himself will not.

" I wouldn't have any trouble representing those as erebennus though because that's exactly what they are".

I would like to lay down the sword, so to speak, and just ask that you answer one simple question.

How do you know that "that's exactly what they are"? In the interest of the herp community, I would hope that your statement wasn't based on the notion..."because Dan told me so". So...

HOW DO YOU KNOW???

One more question you forgot....

Why does Anaconda Al (who's real name is Rob) get banned by Webslave and then come back on the BOI posting under another alias rather than paying the fine that was imposed on him?

I'll answer your question when you pay Webslave what you owe him

Rob, like I said before....you lose credibility when you pose as a woman to bypass Webslave's $10 fine.

As far as Dan and I being friends....I've never met him so I don't know if I'd consider us friends. I've talked about indigos and Drymarchon husbandry with him on an internet forum and a couple emails. I purchased a unicolor cribo from him and I purchased a YT cribo from someone else that was in Dan's care. Dan was honest and shipped me healthy, quality animals in both transactions. He's always been helpful and friendly on the forums.
In other words, I don't have any reason not to trust him except for allegations from you and Chris. Neither of you have supplied any proof of these allegations and that picture just doesn't look like a couperi / unicolor cross to me by any stretch of the imagination.
If you were able to prove that Dan misrepresented hybrids I would have a different opinion of him but you haven't. I've seen Chris go after very reputable people in the hobby before without proof (and I'm not referring to Fred Albury). If I have a negative opinion about Chris it's because of the way he has trolled the KS indigo and pit forums for over a year using fake aliases and attacking anyone who doesn't agree with him....even going so far as to attack individuals for their efforts at indigo habitat conservation. It just gets old after a while guys.