Allapattah Flats / Reptile City - BAD Guys.

I placed an order from Allapattah Flats on July 1, 2005 and have yet to receive either the product I paid for or a refund. I have tried numerous times to get them to either send the animals or to refund my credit card, but they just keep giving me the run-around.

Below is the email reply I received after placing the order:

From: <sales@allapattahflats.com>
To: <yukondenali@hotmail.com>
Subject: Your Allapattah Flats Turtle Farm Order
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 21:22:16 -0400
Thank you for your recent order with Allapattah Flats, all orders are processed within 5-7 business days of the original order date.

Our sales department will be in contact with you via-e-mail or telephone to confirm your order. All reptiles purchased from Allapattah Flats are covered by a 60-day guarantee. Amphibians are only guaranteed upon arrival, they are not covered under our 60 day warranty.
In addition to this guarantee, it is our policy that if an animal has to be sent back to Allapattah Flats for any reason, it will be the customer’s responsibility for the fees of the return shipping, plus a 20% re-stocking fee.

When reviewing your Credit Card Statement your Allapattah Flats order charge will appear as Totally Reptile.

If you should have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at 1-888-877-0506, during the hours of 8a.m.–10p.m, 7 days a week.
Thank you for shopping with Allapattah Flats.


Order Number : 1040
Placed : 07/01/2005 21:22:16 EDT

Ship To: Bill To:
Paul Sage Paul Sage
yukondenali@hotmail.com yukondenali@hotmail.com
608-288-0027 608-288-0027

Paul Sage Reptiles Paul Sage Reptiles
4610 Onaway Pass 4610 Onaway Pass
Madison WI 53711 Madison WI 53711
US US

Code Name Quantity Price/Ea. Total
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
CS6I Reeves Turtles (babies) 35.00 x 4 = $140.00 2 $140.00 $280.00
Shipping: Turtles Only (200.00 Min Order): $0.00
Sales Tax: $0.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: $280.00

Ten days passed without any contact from them, so I sent the following email:

From: Paul Sage
To: sales@allapattahflats.com
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Your Allapattah Flats Turtle Farm Order

Hi, I was just wondering if you could inform me of the status of my order that I placed 10 days ago. Thanks, I appreciate it.
Paul

This is the response I got:

From: "Allapattah Flats" <sales@allapattahflats.com>
To: "Paul Sage" <yukondenali@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your Allapattah Flats Turtle Farm Order
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:14:19 -0400
Thanks for the email,

The Reeves Turtles which, you have ordered have not hatched yet. For some reason everything is late this year. I will be going our to the farm today and getting a better update from Mr. Weinburg.

Thanks,
Felton

I then waiting approximately six weeks, with still no word from them, so I sent another email inquiring about my order. Note that I stated a refund would be acceptable if they would not be shipping the animals:

From: Paul Sage
To: sales@allapattahflats.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 5:24 AM
Subject: Re: Your Allapattah Flats Turtle Farm Order

Hello again. I was hoping you could provide me with an update to this order that I placed over a month and a half ago. My credit card was charged as soon as I placed the order. If the turtles will not be available by September 1, I would appreciate a refund to my card. Please let me know the status of the order.
Thank you
Paul Sage
(608) 288-0027

They replied that day asking for my order number, despite the fact that it was listed lower in the email:

From: "Allapattah Flats" <sales@allapattahflats.com>
To: "Paul Sage" <yukondenali@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your Allapattah Flats Turtle Farm Order
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 07:03:33 -0400
Mr. Sage,

Can you please give me your order number and I'll be happy to give you a status of your order.

Nina

That was the only correspondence I've had with "Nina".
Anyway, I replied with this email:

From: Paul Sage
To: sales@allapattahflats.com
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: Your Allapattah Flats Turtle Farm Order

I am still waiting for a response regarding the status of my order. Any information you need should be at the bottom of this page. Thank you.
Paul
(608)288-0027

...and got this response from Felton:

From: "Allapattah Flats" <sales@allapattahflats.com>
To: "Paul Sage" <yukondenali@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your Allapattah Flats Turtle Farm Order
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 07:13:12 -0400

Paul, the owner of the farm which by Reeves Turtles has been in and out of the hospital. I will try him once again tomorrow and if we can not set and arrangement time I will credit your account. Very sorry for this confusion with your order.
Thanks,
Felton

Almost two weeks passed and I did not hear back from them, so I sent them this email:

From: "Paul Sage" <yukondenali@hotmail.com>
To: sales@allapattahflats.com
Subject: Re: Your Allapattah Flats Turtle Farm Order
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 03:26:33 -0500
I understand that certain conditions may arise that delay the processing of an order, but I feel that I have given you ample time already to do so. Please refund my credit card for the $280 that I was charged on July 1st. I expect that this will be taken care of no later than September 15th. Thank you.
Paul Sage

I did not receive a response to that email. No animals were shipped, and my credit card had not been refunded.


I then talked to Felton twice on the phone about the order. The information obtained during, and pertaining to, those calls is in the email below. I have been trying to reach them, but I have heard nothing from them since the phone call when Felton told me that they would be sending the animals. I sent them this email yesterday:

From : Paul Sage <yukondenali@hotmail.com>
Sent : Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:47 PM
To : sales@allapattahflats.com
I spoke with Felton on 10/07/05 about this order. He told me that he needed to check with the owner of the Reeve's and that he would get back to me on 10/08/05. He didn't.

So, I called him on 10/18/05 and Felton told me that they had the Reeve's and would be shipping them out for Friday delivery. I did not get a shipping confirmation so I called on Friday to find out whether or not they were indeed shipped. No one answered and I left a message, asking someone to call me back. No one did.

I tried calling today (10/26/05) at 4:00 CST, and no one answered.

This is your FINAL notice to either ship the Reeves to me tomorrow (10/27/05) for delivery on Friday 10/28/05 or to refund my credit card in the amount of $280.00 no later than 4:00pm CST on Thursday, 10/27/05. I am DONE getting the run around from you guys. This is absolutely ridiculous. If either of the above ultimatums are not met by the specified time, I will file a complaint with my credit card company to recover the damages, and consult my attorney if needed.
Felton, you mentioned that you've seen me post on Fauna Classifieds. I don't think you want the first thread on there about you to come from me.
Sincerely,
Paul Sage
4610 Onaway Pass
Madison, WI 53711
(608) 288-0027
Order No. 1040

I have tried three times to call them today. The first time I left a message mentioning the email I sent to them and that I wanted either the animals or a refund (again).

Normally I am a rather patient individual. However, they have lied to me about shipping the turtles, have not followed through with their promises, and are now refusing to reply to my emails and phone calls.

I will be contacting my credit card company either tonight or tomorrow to see if I can contest the charge that was made back in July.

I will be sending them an email notifying them of this thread, and will post any pertinent updates as I receive them.

requesting an investigation by your credit card company. I would think they can only issue a refund if there's money to be taken from the seller's account. You've been WAY more patient than I ever would have been. It sounds like you're on the right track. If they have been alerted to this thread it will be interesting to see what they have to say, if anything. I wish you luck.

At this point it's obvious they don't have the turtles as they should've hatched by now. Are they an established business? Do they have a web page? If it was me I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing they charged my cc $280, never delivered, and they stilll have my credit information. For your sake Paul let's hope they prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by Greg Riso

requesting an investigation by your credit card company. I would think they can only issue a refund if there's money to be taken from the seller's account. You've been WAY more patient than I ever would have been. It sounds like you're on the right track. If they have been alerted to this thread it will be interesting to see what they have to say, if anything. I wish you luck.

This will be the first time I've ever had to contest a charge, and I know that the longer you wait, the more difficult it is for the cc company to do anything about it. Even if I'm out the $280, at least I've done what I can to warn other potential buyers of their practices.

Originally Posted by The BoidSmith

At this point it's obvious they don't have the turtles as they should've hatched by now. Are they an established business? Do they have a web page? If it was me I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing they charged my cc $280, never delivered, and they stilll have my credit information. For your sake Paul let's hope they prove me wrong.

Dan, their webpage is www.allapattahflats.com . I had searched extensively for anything about them here, and didn't come up with a single thing. From their webpage, I got the impression that they were pretty legit. Fortunately the credit card is through a bank I used to work for, and I can easily find out if there have been any suspicious charges on the account. So far, there haven't been any.

I believe that I first saw an ad for them on kingsnake.com, but it was so long ago I don't recall exactly. As I understand their T.O.S., they suspend your account upon notification of non-payment or non-delivery of goods. I've never posted anything over there, and am not very familiar with how things work. Do you think it's worth reporting to them?

I believe that I first saw an ad for them on kingsnake.com, but it was so long ago I don't recall exactly. As I understand their T.O.S., they suspend your account upon notification of non-payment or non-delivery of goods. I've never posted anything over there, and am not very familiar with how things work. Do you think it's worth reporting to them?

Chances are that if you don't have a reference to that ad they will do nothing about it. But hey! You loose nothing by trying.

Best of lucks.

KS.com (kingscam) usually does nothing. I got in a similiar situation over a year ago with one of their advertisers. I provided all the proof that they needed. "Ginger" at ks promised to initiate an investigatiin. HA HA! Luckily I had paid with a Postal MO, and USPS Investigations was able to resolve things.

Paul, I'm sorry to hear about your situation, why so many seller's use the old, I was in the hospital, had brain surgery, broken back and every other illness to avoid the truth is beyond me, and makes me very angry. I hope you get some resolution from this company. Have you sent them a copy of this thread yet??

Originally Posted by Laura Cox

Have you sent them a copy of this thread yet??

Yes. I sent it to them within a few minutes after posting this.
I already contacted my credit card company to file the dispute, but I called too late in the day. ...have to try again tomorrow.

I really hope your luck turns around.
Mark Westberg

These people are a joke. I ordered some superworms from them a while back and it took me a MONTH to get them. I emailed them several times with no response. So I called and got Felton who assured me that they would go out the next day. Next day comes....no worms. Called again, got the machine. More emails...no response at all. Anyway, they finally showed up, 2 weeks after I was "supposed" to get them... mostly dead and just disgusting. I could never get a hold of Felton again. I never filed a claim, because it wasn't a lot of money and I just wanted to be done with it.
Good luck to you Paul. I hope you get your money back and more....I think you should get some interest too!