A question of ethics...

I have just returned from browsing on a recent startup website that seems to have as their modus operandi to actively email current users of kingsnake.com to invite them to that new site. Although no love is lost between myself and kingsnake.com, I have not done this sort of thing myself, simply because I felt it was a bit underhanded. Probably mostly because JoeP was slammed mightily on the BOI for basically doing that very same thing. So there was a precedent to keep in consideration, I believe.

But heck, that other site seems to be fairly successful at what they are doing, so should I just consider kingsnake.com's user base as fair game and follow suit with the same strategy? Has JeffB's actions dropped the pretense of a tenuous arms-length camaradarie between webmasters? So now is it every man for himself and try to snare users at will from other sites? Email the remaining users still remaining on the Titanic to tell them of the leaks below the water line, and point them to OUR lifeboats?

I don't know, I just have a LOT of trouble bringing myself to do something of that sort. Even to JeffB.

Webslave,

Only you can make that decision.

With that said, now I'll share my opinion.

No matter what the outcome would be for Fauna, it's a much greater reward for you to know that you've built this site with the honesty and integrity you planned it to have in the beginning.

The new site may do well initially by spamming KS, but if that site has taken the easy way out to get members, it will also take the easy way out on other matters, and will not last long.

You've made some very difficult decisions in regards to Fauna, yet you have a reputation for doing the *RIGHT* thing, even when it was most definitely not the *EASY* thing.

YOU personally set the tone here, and YOU have earned the loyalty of some of the finest quality individuals in the industry.

The truth is, considering the happenings between KS and Fauna, many people would applaud you for spamming Jeff's site. If you do that, and I don't think for a moment you'd do it for any reason other than the good of Fauna, I'm confident that the opinion of the members here would be supportive. Heck, they'd probably throw a party.

However, in reading your post, I'm just as confident that you wouldn't feel right about doing it, and that is of the utmost importance. Follow your heart on this one, Webslave.

I definitely think that poaching the KS forums would be low class, for lack of a better term. I thought it was cheap when Reptile Republic did it, and I thought it was cheap when sSnakess did it. I'm going to be honest with you. If you start poaching too, I will lose respect for you and this site. It's not good form, and it's beneath you.

I have to agree.

Also, I tend to think that the majority of people who leave kingsnake and take over a new board so readily, are not the types that will remain loyal to either board to anywhere approaching the extent members here are loyal.

I mean, if you NEED the hits and can deal with the influx of immaturity that may follow, by all means. Otherwise, the people that belong here will find their way regardless.

Word of mouth is enough for a place with a reputation such as this, to attract the memberlist that you are looking for.

... which is where I've been hanging out since the mess with kingsnake.com began, but if you are:

There is no policy at fieldherpers to bombard kingsnake.com with directives to their own site, nor any other kind of officially-sanctioned/encouraged spamming program going on. As far as I am aware (I don't know for certain because I no longer visit kingsnake.com), ONE USER of fieldherpers took it upon himself to respond to someone's question on kingsnake.com by directing them to fieldherpers, and that's it. As far as it goes, he was doing what he thought right and so as far as ethics are concerned I applaud him for it, though I wouldn't choose to act so myself.

In fact, I feel exactly the same way about all of the people from here at faunaclassifieds who so recently enjoyed themselves by registering various aliases at kingsnake.com in order to get themselves censored/banned. I wouldn't do it myself, but if they were doing it because they thought it was the right thing to do, I don't see an ethical problem (of course, I rather suspect that isn't why many or most were doing it).

I'd use the same ethical standard to answer your question. Do you believe kingsnake.com is potentially harmful enough to the online herp community that users should be actively directed elsewhere? If so I say go for it. But if you're just trying to up your hit count (fieldherpers is a noncommercial site, by the way, so its operator doesn't profit from hits, either), then I'd say your integrity is worth far more than those hits.

Gerry
gbin@zoo.ufl.edu

I personally don't care for websites that cull emails from other sites. I found it quite annoying when Reptile Republic & sSnakess spammed my inbox with invites to their sites. It's one thing if I run across an advertisement for a site or learn of it from an online friend, I just don't like being spammed. Shrug. What can I say, I'm the testy sort. lol

Dianne

I wouldn't worry about doing anything to JeffB or to Kingsnake. I would rather worry about what doing this would do to YOU and your sense of fairness. I agree with the others and suggest that you continue to let this site grow on its own reputation spread by word of mouth.

I agree with the general thinking here also. I'm strictly an obsessive pet owner only and not current on much of the online business issues, but as a very long time net user I KNOW that anytime I get spam/unsolicited email I am more likely to entertain thoughts of ill will toward the spammer than anything else.

This site is growing readily with a very nice spectrum of people from the herping world and I'm very glad to have found it on my own. I'd guess that most people truly interested in looking for the information to be found here will find it using the search engines.

That being said, I would suggest that this site be submitted to as many search engines as possible so that herptophiles will be able to find us all here!!

I do agree with everyone on the fairness and ethics part, however it would be nice to have more people use this forum. Many of the sections of this forum only have one or two threads in it. I personally am more interested in those sections than the BOI and all the Want Ads, and For Sale sections. As a small time herp owner who is not looking to buy or sell anything, I come here for intellectual stimulation. I would love to see more people here talking about genetics, ethics of owning "wild" species, husbandry stuff, and all those other realms of herpotology and other exotic-type pets (not to say that cats and dogs are dull, I have a cat, she's neat but not to exciting when compaired to my corns swallowing a pinkie whole)

Just a thought, I understand how tricky this is and no one wants to be seen as an internet bad-guy/prowler/sales-man

Hey, I bet your cat would swallow a pinkie whole, I know my dog would. In fact, I'm pretty sure she has a few times. She's wiley.
Most posts in the forums do elicit discussion, and it's kind of a give in take between forum traffice and reading posts from annoying people with annoying people answering them.

Erin B.