John Michael Martino aka John Michael Reptile. New York Long Island.

Watch the profanity, please.

Ball pythons are not directly relevant to tortoises since ball python common practices may not be common for chelonians. The relevance of the ball python practice is in relation to morphs. Both visual/apparent morphs and animals which are heterozygous for recessive morph alleles. The bulk of people working with chelonian morphs do not give photographic lineage documents. The majority of these animals look very similar, too, and change shape as they grow to maturity, making that type of documentation of limited value. Individuals in a clutch of caramel pink scripta elegans or albino sulcata look almost identical as neonates and blur from their original forms as they eventually (hopefully) progress into adulthood. The patterns of ball pythons and boas which are het for recessive morph alleles make this very different, as these identifying marks persist to a much greater degree. Imagine trying to do the same with pattern-progressing (and fading) animals like guttata, carolina, hamiltonii, or pardalis. A hatchling of one of these will rarely show any individual-maintained identifying characteristics relative to the adult form.

I know of a couple of star sellers who offer(ed) or tend(ed) to send photographic records of lineage. It is/was nice and it is/was interesting (as well as convenient for bloodline tracking), but not the standard even among the many star sellers. There are many who do no such thing. Radiated sellers have some among them who offer such things, too, and that is also nice, but -again- the majority do not. For many (if not most) of us, the option to keep a copy of the ad, photos exchanged, and communications between parties is enough of a paper trail.

It is within bounds for you to request that sellers provide these things to you. It is also within bounds for a seller to not provide these things as a matter of course. If it is a problem for a buyer, the buyer is free to shop elsewhere. Across the bulk of chelonian sellers in the US, this photographic certificate practice is not performed.

OP, you will need to identify the person who owns the words in post #9 or have the person self-identify to avoid the possibilities of infraction or removal.

Chun, you are looking like the unreasonable person here. I don't see that John Martino did anything wrong. You decided you wanted paperwork after the fact which is not normal practice for transactions for these animals, and is not even appropriate for the situation (CITES). Then you attacked the guy publicly on the BOI when he didn't immediately jump up and do what you wanted.

I don't keep torts so my opinion may be irrelevant, but based on this thread I wouldn't hesitate to buy from John, but I would not want to buy or sell with you. The BOI can work both ways, you know....if you aren't reasonable and go on the attack, you show yourself as someone others won't want to work with. Just saying....

Originally Posted by tlmoon

Chun, you are looking like the unreasonable person here. I don't see that John Martino did anything wrong. You decided you wanted paperwork after the fact which is not normal practice for transactions for these animals, and is not even appropriate for the situation (CITES). Then you attacked the guy publicly on the BOI when he didn't immediately jump up and do what you wanted.

I don't keep torts so my opinion may be irrelevant, but based on this thread I wouldn't hesitate to buy from John, but I would not want to buy or sell with you. The BOI can work both ways, you know....if you aren't reasonable and go on the attack, you show yourself as someone others won't want to work with. Just saying....

No doubt. The OP here seems like a nightmare seller to deal with and a massive headache. Zero reason to ask for that paperwork after the fact....if it was that big a deal, it should've been brought up before the transaction completed.

OP, if you wanted such paperwork and documentation, then you should have brought that to the attention of the seller BEFORE the transaction took place. As he does not provide paperwork like you are asking for arbitrarily. You accepted the deal as it was, yet later changed what you wanted after the deal had already been complete. You waited beyond a reasonable amount of time to demand that the seller give you paperwork, and when he didn't comply in YOUR time-frame you blasted him. Which there was no reason for doing or being demanding of in the first place.

You haven't accomplished anything in this thread, other than to make yourself look like a demanding buyer who can't be satisfied.

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

No doubt. The OP here seems like a nightmare seller to deal with and a massive headache. Zero reason to ask for that paperwork after the fact....if it was that big a deal, it should've been brought up before the transaction completed.

I assume you meant to type buyer instead of seller? As the OP was the purchaser not the seller.

Originally Posted by Mistyck

I assume you meant to type buyer instead of seller? As the OP was the purchaser not the seller.

Exactly, lol. I meant buyer for sure.

^^^ What Theresa, Brandi and David said (taking into consideration David's admitted mistake). I see no real "bad guy" here, but I see an unreasonable buyer who seemed to be happy with the animal received, but decided the seller was a bad guy due to the lack of paperwork, AFTER completion of the transaction of an acceptable, healthy animal as advertised. Yeah, makes sense.

Like i said, I am disappointed with his business practices post purchase.
(1) John Martino said "you are badgering me for paperwork" what do you mean badgering? I told you that I want to breed Burmese in future, i even told you i love to working on conservation so i don't want to get in any trouble.I was ASKING in a politely way not BADGERING, and i explained to you why i need to get a certificate from you. (you guys can look over the pictures, it's on post #1)

(2) After i explained what i am concerned , you text me back : okay i will get you a sign letter with a hatch date and i will send you pics of the parents? Fair enough? when would you like to meet?
I feel like he start to give me attitude ( English is not my first language, maybe you guys don't feel that way. i do)

(3)So i told him i have to ask my friend to give me a ride (He knows i don;t have a car),and i asked him can you please sign me the letter before getting new Burmese?
2 minutes later he sent me 2 pictures and wrote hatched by me 11/21/2016.
I was like ... what are you doing? I told you I need your address, name and signature and you said okay you are going to do that... but now you just send me a pic with a sentence? are you misunderstood something?
I start to think.... is that a CBB Burmese.....?

(4)One day later, i made a certificate, ask for his email and signature, but he didn't reply.
I start to worry about my tortoise is from the wild, like i said i want to work on conservation and i REALLY DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANY ANIMALS FROM THE WILD. so i am kinda worry and say "Maybe the tortoise is not captive breed right?"
John Martino finally text me back, and say I'm done with you.... and he refused to sign, and later, we start to argue.

I think you guys misunderstand something, I am not asking for a Certificate after purchase.
I am asking for certificate before a new purchase, and he promised to sign one for me. but he didn't. and saying i am a crazy stalker ...

typing in my own word, please forgive my grammar mistake. Thank you guys