Avangel Reptiles- parasitic reptiles, and more

First, I'm going to say that my geckos stay on the crested side of the line, not the leo side.

But even I'm not so blind and ignorant as to think that these animals are healthy with those tiny, emaciated tails. And a leopard gecko just burying itself in it's water dish kinda made my jaw drop because I can't even imagine my cresteds doing that, and they're much more fond of water than leopards.

So the guy obviously sent sick animals because animals don't get that ill overnight in a box. But him screaming about his military service is what disgusts me the most. My husband's been active duty for nearly 13 years and intends to retire. It's literally why I'm (temporarily) getting out of the reptile trade- the moving is too much of a worry for the little guys' health. He has been mortared at, shot at, bombs gone off right outside his base, and dealt with corpses and all sorts of nightmares during the tsunami relief effort in Japan.

And he blushes when somebody at a restaurant notices his hair cut and thanks him for his service. He ignores military discounts at restaurants. And here's this hopped up loser who sells sick animals screaming "I was in a war zone!!!!"

I'm glad to see the BOI is so strongly worded (ie: it doesn't agree with your lousy practices. Oh no. What sadness. Such sorrow) that it's setting off your obvious PTSD. Too bad you've probably given it to your geckos too. Your very existence insults me and I wouldn't buy a tin whistle from you.

Are you using PTSD as a pejorative?

Originally Posted by coolbord9

Are you using PTSD as a pejorative?

No, I'm using it sarcastically since this guy thinks that he doesn't treat his animals "inhuman" when it's obvious that he does and he's hinting about it, so I'm throwing it back in his face. If you really think for 2 seconds that I don't think PTSD is a real thing, oh man are you wrong. I volunteer at two different ongoing events for vets in the area with PTSD, traumatic brain injuries, and a number of other issues. So while I'm no psychologist, I'm pretty aware of it.

ooooh I see. Sorry, text doesn't carry sarcasm well

Originally Posted by nikki9093

I have been privy to another buyer , who, about six months ago, got a leo from Avangel Reptiles. The animal is on deaths door as I type. I had no clue just how bad off he was until she actually posted photos to my group tonight. She has been in contact with him, and I also have PMd him about the buyer. Its been six months tho, So its hard to make any type of case for it, but she will probably be loosing this leo. Theres no way , as far gone as he is now, that he can recover from whatever he has. He looks so bad. I would have recommended her , had I known, to have him put down. I DID, when I saw the pics...Im happy that my skinny is crypto negative, and grateful that they are all seemingly on the mend. Eating, pooping...but this leo she has... wow.

Please identify this person, since you have relayed the story - anonymous third party quotation is not acceptable on the BOI.

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Please identify this person, since you have relayed the story - anonymous third party quotation is not acceptable on the BOI.

I re-read the rules, and I saw nothing about this. I haven't quoted anyone either. I made an observation, have been in contact with, and know what she was dealing with. She is also under 18. The said leo has died, so there is nothing further to mention about the animal, unless she want to post in here about her experience with Chaz. I will ask her if I can post her name, as the name on FB is not her "name", but a moniker. I have encouraged her to post here, but as I have said, she is under 18.

Originally Posted by nikki9093

I re-read the rules, and I saw nothing about this. I haven't quoted anyone either. I made an observation, have been in contact with, and know what she was dealing with.

If you look at the BOI front page, up top, in red, you will find the rules for posting on the BOI. Here is the link/sticky:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ead.php?t=8880
If you look toward the bottom, of the rules page, you will find the following:
"Anonymous third party quotation - 1 point
Saying something like "my buddy says you are a thief" is a third party quotation. There is no ownership to the accusation being made. Not allowed here. Let you buddy come in here and say it, otherwise it needs to remain unsaid."

Here is another link/sticky, that is located on the BOI front page, about anonymous third party quotes:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=146268

Originally Posted by Pasodama

"Anonymous third party quotation - 1 point
Saying something like "my buddy says you are a thief" is a third party quotation. There is no ownership to the accusation being made. Not allowed here. Let you buddy come in here and say it, otherwise it needs to remain unsaid."

Obviously I'm not going to argue the point, as this is the BOI and proof is needed while anonymity is not permitted, but as Nikki didn't make an accusation based on what the third person said (as in the example in the rules), simply stated another case, I don't know if *personally* I would call it third party quotation. But that's simply my interpretation of the rules and what was stated, and I'm not an moderator here. Just my thoughts on that little tidbit.

Hopefully we can get the third person with experience with Chaz on here to tell her story. Every bit of experience with this man helps get the word out there, and maybe will help even just one person getting into the hobby learn how not to treat their animals and customers.

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Nikki didn't make an accusation based on what the third person said

I believe she did, in describing the condition of the animal received...and, while she didn't say "someone told me ______", she made it clear that it wasn't something of which she had first-hand knowledge (ie: he sent my friend an emaciated gecko)

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

this is the BOI and proof is needed while anonymity is not permitted

Proof is not in fact required (although it is encouraged).
But anonymity lends itself to false claims of proof, because one could if one was so inclined make up pretty much anything, call it proof and conveniently have it come from another who could not be cross examined.
It is remarkable how many stories fall apart on questioning, but one cannot question someone who is not present.