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Old 09-20-2017, 11:27 PM   #1
wvaherp
Blood gene question

So my wife and I went to a reptile expo over the weekend and even though I was only intending to look at some caging offered by a vendor there, I ended up having one of the other vendors there offer me a deal on a pair of boas that were supposed to be het for plasma that I couldn't refuse. Unfortunately, I wasn't thinking of the correct combination in regards to "plasma", so I didn't realize that hypo was one that was needed for this, and neither animal appears hypomelanistic in any way. Of course I realized this after looking into combinations that include the blood gene once I got home. This, in and of itself, doesn't bother me too much, as the one that was sold to me as the male in this pair seems to me to be a somewhat dark visual blood. The pair definitely appears to have some sort of central American influence to me, with the attitudes and mouths to match, so that does seem to line up, but given that there's no way they could be het for what they were marked as and the fact that I've only seen bloods online, I'm curious about what else they may have been incorrect about. For the deal I got on them, I'm not extremely worried if I was totally taken for a ride, but I still wonder... Once they have settled in a bit more and hopefully de-stressed I will add photos to this thread so others can chime in with their opinions on what they see, but I'd prefer to leave these two to relax for a while before messing with them that much. Especially since I just treated them for mites yesterday (along with the rest of my collection) after finding they brought them into my home for the first time in 11 years of keeping snakes...

For now, I was wondering if anyone has seen or has a decent description of the phenotype of the blood gene? I've spent a decent amount of time searching on multiple sites, but have yet to find what seems to be a solid description of it (if one even exists), or if any surefire markers besides the coloration for this gene are known.

I tried to get the guy I bought them from to send me pictures of their parents, but he has yet to do that for me (which probably isn't helping my suspicions).


Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
 
Old 09-21-2017, 09:08 AM   #2
chrisis697
Check out Vin Russo website. He has a lot of good knowledge on there about boas. Good luck with them.

Chris
Bandspythons/facebook
 
Old 09-21-2017, 11:16 AM   #3
bcr229
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvaherp View Post
I tried to get the guy I bought them from to send me pictures of their parents, but he has yet to do that for me (which probably isn't helping my suspicions).
Did the seller claim he produced the snakes? A lot of them buy babies to flip so he wouldn't have the parents.
 
Old 09-21-2017, 01:24 PM   #4
AbsoluteApril
Blood is a recessive color gene that intensifies red.
Pretty good description of it here: http://www.blumenboas.com/boamorphs.htm

I hope you'll share some photos of the babies, hypo can look dark in CAs. If they are not visual hypo maybe they only carry the blood and type 2 anery?
I'm sure it's frustrating not being sure what you got it what they were sold as
 
Old 09-21-2017, 05:00 PM   #5
elena
I think plasma is anery hypo blood. I could be mistaken, but I think if both boas are normal in appearance (not hypo) than you wouldn't make plasmas. Could you post pics of both parents? Some CA hypos are pretty dark.
 
Old 09-21-2017, 08:58 PM   #6
bcr229
I did some digging and the plasma boas I found were all described as Type II anery, so I guess that makes a difference as well.

I'll wait for the pictures.
 
Old 09-21-2017, 09:25 PM   #7
elena
Yes, that's what I've read as well.
 
Old 09-21-2017, 09:56 PM   #8
wvaherp
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisis697 View Post
Check out Vin Russo website. He has a lot of good knowledge on there about boas. Good luck with them.

Chris
Bandspythons/facebook
Thanks for the tip, Chris. I did read the small piece on his website about them when looking through what I could find on them. I do find a bit of similarity to what he describes, but given that I'm not sure of the purity of these ones, I was hoping for maybe a few other clues.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bcr229 View Post
Did the seller claim he produced the snakes? A lot of them buy babies to flip so he wouldn't have the parents.
That is a good question. His wording made it sound like he produced them, but he didn't directly say he did. He specifically stated he had a couple others that were holdbacks. I can't remember hearing someone refer to cherry picked individuals from a batch they bought as holdbacks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril View Post
Blood is a recessive color gene that intensifies red.
Pretty good description of it here: http://www.blumenboas.com/boamorphs.htm

I hope you'll share some photos of the babies, hypo can look dark in CAs. If they are not visual hypo maybe they only carry the blood and type 2 anery?
I'm sure it's frustrating not being sure what you got it what they were sold as
Thanks April. I did know the basics of what a blood was before buying them along with the method of inheritance. I was mainly curious if anyone knew if there were any other unique indicators that this gene produces. I really don't think there is any hypo influence on either animal. They both have a lot of black in their patterns. As far as the type II anery goes, all I can do is cross my fingers. I know it's supposed to be part of the equation for the combo they were claimed to be het for, but they both show too much color compared to the pictures I've been able to find of a type II. But yes, it is very frustrating. Even more frustrating than not noticing the mites before I bought them...



Quote:
Originally Posted by elena View Post
I think plasma is anery hypo blood. I could be mistaken, but I think if both boas are normal in appearance (not hypo) than you wouldn't make plasmas. Could you post pics of both parents? Some CA hypos are pretty dark.
That's exactly what I have read in multiple places. Given that the hypo gene is co-dominant, you would also be correct that if neither show it, they can't be het for plasma. That's part of my problem though. I haven't been able to get a response out of the "breeder" to see if he's got any pictures of them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bcr229 View Post
I did some digging and the plasma boas I found were all described as Type II anery, so I guess that makes a difference as well.

I'll wait for the pictures.
Once again, the same findings I made when looking into it a bit deeper. I guess I could say that at least they could be het for anery type II since I won't know that until I breed them. If I'm not mistaken, without the hypo gene, but with blood and type II, they would be het for pewter.

I'll probably get them out this weekend if it is sunny and get some good pictures with the wife's "real" camera. Maybe that way they'll come out reasonably accurate. I'm still letting them de-stress and allowing the NIX treatment in their tubs work on those mites. Thanks for that write up you've posted a couple times on here, BTW. It helped give me a better idea of how to do that treatment.
 
Old 09-21-2017, 10:13 PM   #9
wvaherp
Quote:
Originally Posted by elena View Post
Yes, that's what I've read as well.
At least we all seem to be in agreement about the combination of genes required to produce that morph.

Now if I only had the right combo in mind or at least got past the "new critter jitters" enough to just google it before I closed the deal! lol!


I gotta say, though. If I had more money to spend at the show, I may have paid a pretty steep price for a subadult female ghost another vendor had. She was a total sweetheart and definitely had something else going on. Her sides had a nearly piebald/calico look that was about a third of the height of her body. I'm sure I could have talked him down a little, but the $700 sticker was a bit of a shocker! Honestly, if it was a male I would have probably broke out the credit card. I would love to pair something like that up with my female hypo when she grows up.
 
Old 09-22-2017, 09:20 AM   #10
elena
Yes, whenever you can get pics, I can easily identify if they are CA hypos. Though they might not be pure CA, with all the crosses around. Anery 2 comes from Nicaragua and blood from El Salvador, hypo from various places such as Nicaragua, Colombia and Panama. If neither of the animals you purchased are hypos, I would question the rest of the genetics as well.
 

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