Ivan Alfonso, Matt Jillson & The Chameleon Company (Jim Flaherty): Bad guys...

Their ability to delivery goods and pay for goods is not in question. I'm sure many people have successfully recieved goods and payment from them. The issue at hand is about ethics, and why they feel the need "bash" others in an attempt to make themselves look good.

I don't know any other breeder or business that uses this type of tactic. Why even bother bringing up other people in an advertisement? They have a product to offer, and all they need to do is talk about their product. There is no reason to talk trash about other people.

The other issue is hiding behind an alias to bash others on public forums. ddmadson also appears on the BOI in other threads. Is there anyway to see where his messages originated from?

The other thing I thought was strange was Dennis Scott's public apology to Matt Jillson about accusing him of hiding behind the ddmadson fascade. If Dennis could please provide his rationale or proof that he was mistaken.

I don't like getting involved in things like this, but when your business is attacked, I feel its the owners responsiblity to respond appropriately. Please don't dismiss this as being "overly dramatic" This is a legitamate problem that needs to be addressed. Mythical Chameleons, The Chameleon Company and Matt Jillson have gotten away with this in the past. I'd like to see this issue be resolved as soon as possible.

Vincent
http://www.screameleons.com

Dan,

You are not going to get a FREE pass on this one. Dennis can
can and should post about this. The apology was based
on the fact that you REFUSED to continue to sell products
to Dennis Scott because of your friendship with Matt Jillson and
Ivan Alfonso. I do believe that Vince of Screameleons was
included in that boycott as well. I have only purchased from you
ONE time. I was NOT satisfied with the quality of the product,
ie screen cages, so I would not buy from you again. In fact the
cages had to be thrown away within three months of getting
them. I did not make a big deal. I went back to Habitat Designs
and purchased well made cages from them. I even tried to talk
with you over the phone about your boycott of Dennis Scott, and
you hung up on me. I do not think that most professionals conduct their business this way. I know that AAA Reptiles and
Big Apple don't! They take care of ALL of their customers. Your
treatment of other paying customers says alot for the company.
Matt Jillson mentioned his association with you in a vile e-mail
that he sent me back in April. Hopefully both Dennis and Vince
will post on this issue.

Legendcham
Lane Gergely

Actually Dennis wished to purchase a custom cage size which we don't do (don't have the man power to do that). Vincent had contacted us about doing wholesale cages earlier this year. No order was placed at this time. We have since stopped taking new wholesale clients so that we can make sure to have the manufacturing capabilities to keep up with demand. Jason Descamps (another chameleon breeder) had also contacted us recently about carrying our cages and was told the exact same thing (just to show it wasn't picking on Vincent). There is no boycott in place.

Someone posted about two people I have dealt with previously and I posted my experience with those two. There are no black helicopters or any consiparcy.

You don't like me because I hung up on you when you called over a recent thread. Someone had attacked a client/friend of mine and that was out of line (concerning her age and right to keep chameleons), and posted in accordance. You called because you wanted to tell me on what threads I could and couldn not post on. I told you to have a nice day and went back to something more productive than speaking with you. So you can have your FREE pass right back.

I want to make it clear that I am in no way accusing Scales of anything. I simply asked about wholesale caging and was given a pdf file with a price quote.

Upon calling them, they asked which cages I wanted and if I could please hold. I told them I needed the 24" high cages + one 48" high cage. She again told me to hold. After another minute she informed me that they are no longer selling wholesale.

That was how conversation went, and thats it. I respect the fact that they stopped wholesaling, and I do hope I was not be excluded for any uknown reason. Although I must admit that the conversation was a bit awkward.

Lets end that now, and get on to the real thread. This thread was started to address a completely different issue.

Vincent

Dan,

First off, the phone conversation was 30 seconds. I NEVER even
mentioned a tread! I told you that I had recieved a E-MAIL from
Matt Jillson back in April. There was not enough time to go into
the detail of the e-mail, or Dennis for that matter. You have
given a reason for NOT selling to Dennis or Vince. We will have
to wait and see if this is the TRUTH, only Dennis and Vince can
clear this up. I am sure that you don't want to see the e-mail
that I recieved from Matt, because it makes YOU look shady!
As far as me not liking you, we have a mutual friend and customer
and I have NEVER said anything negative to her about you.
I don't run around smearing people, or their animals. I will leave
that up to the pros, like Ivan and Matt. If Matts e-mail is true
than that would include yourself!

Legendcham
Lane Gergely

If the business practices of Scales needs to be addressed, a new thread should be started. Lets try to keep things on track and deal with one issue at a time.

Vincent.

I was debating if I should join in on this little childish finger pointing toe stomping thread, but when I see 2 people (john who helped me out tons when I first got into panthers on ks and selling great silkies, and ivan who has been my vet and great help) getting into this and having poor screamelons pulled into it I feel I should point out a few things.

People! YOU ARE ALL BIG NAMES IN THIS HOBBY! what does it look like to the new people when they come on a forum and see all the big names pointing fingers and whining about each other for stupid <font color=red>[**censored**]</font> !?!?!?!

First off, as far as ddmadison...why are we still paying any attention to his posts? he just stirs up un needed trouble. -----IF it is in fact matt, he should really think about what he's doing to his partners, granted its not going to effect their sales probably at all, but its still not a good image. -------IT IS also possible for someone to change their IP address by routing it thru another computer, its actually not that hard at all to do ( I personaly have 2 friends that do it daily to download illigal music) ------MATT if ddmadison is not you and you would like to clear it up...maybe have your wife or someone get a pic of the both of you...might help?

As far as Ivans sales pitch of his offspring...ITS CALLED GOOD SELLING TACTICS to boost your product and say its better than the competition! Have any of you ever sold anything? watched an election campaign? watched an advertizment for a car for god sake? they all boost their product and cut down the competition.
Ivan never directly pointed fingers and said any other companys name in his ad, the only people that jump to conclusions and say "OH OH he's talking about this person!" are the very small handful of people that have formed a dislike for each other...GUESS WHAT? no one else would even venture a guess that the ad is bashing another person! I promise so get over it!

As for poor screameleons----If he partnered with BeBe or bought their stock he has every right to sell it as his own...if he bought it...it IS his! The question should not be are his pictures in BeBe's greenhouse, it should be ---- Does he sell sick animals? ----does he misrepresent his animals? not in the sence of selling for someone else but does He ever show one animals pic and sell it as another, or say "I'm selling neon man" and sells you some other animal? *************the answer is NO....so why drag him into anything like this? Ivan as far as him possible saying something behind your back about you-when I talked to him he said he had no problems with you, never said anything but good. (By the way vince-what happened to the adoptions? My roomate keeps pestering me to add more blue to my collection so she can name it smurf)

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZ
I nominate this thread for the most boring, useless waste of space on this site. Anyone screwed over any customers or anyone else. Not from what I can understand. Were there any specific references made to another company in the ads. Not that I can see. It's all sly inuendo and as far as i know, that's not illegal. Hell Bush and Kerry are doing much worse to each other, but at least they're more entertaining.
Just my humble opinion.
Ross Buskard

I don't know any other breeder or business that uses this type of tactic. Why even bother bringing up other people in an advertisement? They have a product to offer, and all they need to do is talk about their product. There is no reason to talk trash about other people.

So they talk trash in their ads?

Lets look at their ads from my point of view.
I know NOTHING about chameleons.
I know NOTHING about chameleon breeders.
All I know is someday I will buy some.
Now lets look at their ads from my point of view.

The text of the add is as follows:

“We are offering our first batch of babies from Anubis bred to select WC females purchased from Reptile Specialties. We have made an official breeding partnership with The Chameleon Company and Matt Jillson, ensuring that all our animals will be nothing but spectacular, honestly represented and needless to say the BEST bloodlines you'll be able to get your hands on.

The guys from these groups are the best of the best and can not be beaten by anything you'll find in any classifieds on the internet outside of what Jim Nozaki has produced. There are definetly "cheap" Ambilobe offspring as well as gimmicks out there but nothing that will make your jaw drop. It has been proven that great parents produce great offspring for breeding future blue bar generations and you can't get better than Anubis. If you've been waiting for the highly sought after blue bar, red bodied Ambilobes to be available your wait is over. Due to the various bloodlines because of the breeding to many different WC females we also have amazing red/yellow bodied males. Needless to say they all are showing deep blue bars. Males are colored up and are rapidly approaching breeding age.

Males are priced at $570.00 plus shipping via paypal. For a slightly lower price we will accept money orders or cash if you are able to pick up in either the Orlando or Los Angeles area.

Check out www.mythicalchameleons.com or contact mattjillson1@hotmail.com if you live in the West Coast. The link below is of Anubis, the sire of these magnificent males.

Thanks for looking.

Ivan, Divy, Jim and Matt
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php?photo=164919”

I do not see where they brought up "other people"
unless you are the other people with "CHEAP" ambilobe offspring.
So far only thing I learned is who could possibly be selling "cheap" stuff.
And they seem to also talk about their product.

The text of the add is as follows:

“Been dying to get your hands on high end blue bar Ambilobe females? Well, we've got them and sired from the best Ambilobe imported from Madagascar: Anubis. Breeding sized females now available in related pairs ONLY. Finding a good Ambilobe male is tough but finding high end females with proven lineage is like finding a needle in a haystack. These are not females produced by a "fruity" male or sold by someone who didn't breed them personally.

These pairs have been raised in the Florida sun in an operation that has been hurricane tested and proven to stand up to anything that is thrown at it. The link below is a pic of Anubis in some of his glory. The pics above are 2 of the females available and one of their brothers so you can see their lineage.

Asking $1200 per pair plus shipping. Paypal, Money Order or cash accepted. Local orders in Orlando or Los Angeles can be arranged.

Visit us at www.mythicalchameleons.com or contact mattjillson1@hotmail.com.

Thanks for looking,
Ivan, Divy, Jim and Matt
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php?photo=164919”

again I see no real attack. anly thing you have shown me is which group of breeders might be using a "fruity" male



I guess what I am trying to say is a bunch of breeders got together to complain about someones ads.
I guess they started feeling inferior or something.....


I could put a boa for sale and say it is the best.....
I honestly don't think anyone will complain and put my name up in lights.
I could put a real red boa for sale and say that it is not some "pastel" bs.
I don't think anyone would put my name up in lights.

and if they do I will thank them.

Because the only thing you guys have accomplished is to let me know who to buy from. Those guys you are all crying about sure do have some AWESOME looking animals. And if they can get their competition to get together and cry over nothing........
If they can get their competition to "basically" admit that it was them who have the "cheap" babies or have the "fruity" male.........
1. They must be doing something right.
2. I want to buy from them.

So thank you.
Your thread posted against the company has helped me decide to buy from the company.
Not only that....my decision is also based on a friend coming out and saying he has good expereinces with them.

Perhaps a little more thought should have been considered before involving the general public on what I can see as nothing more than politics

a little hint just in case you missed it.

when your competition says he has the best stuff and his stuff is better than the "cheap " stuff out there........
then you start to cry about it.......
it pretty much tells us your stuff is the "cheap" stuff he is talking about.


when your competition says his animals are not bred by some "fruity" male and you start crying about it.

it pretty much tells us your offspring are from a "fruity" male he was talking about.

Then when you post pictures of his ads complete with pictures....
and we see how BEAUTIFUL his animals are....
that pretty much seals the deal to convince us to buy from your competition.