Cautionary thread- Michael John (Frognerd.com)

Originally Posted by GeckoLabs

RE: Chalking it up to my error-
Had it of been directly and blatantly my error, I would. As I've stated, repeatedly, I place no direct blame on the seller. There is no way of knowing when an animal may have issues if there are no symptoms.

You don't want to say it's your error but you're very willing to say that it's the sellers error and are also willing to say that he should offer you a refund. So who is right here, and does it really matter at this point?

Even if he had shipped the animals and you had had them in your care for 2 days afterwards he technically wouldn't have to give you a refund because he offers a "Live Arrival Guarantee" and nothing past that. Though in his words he did say that he would have been more "LIKELY" to give a refund had they been shipped; but that again does not guarantee that he would have given you one then either.

Sometimes animals die, no matter how we try to ensure that things are perfect for them. And that's what it seems happened here. That lizard could have lived for an additional 3 weeks (or more) and then died. Would you still be placing blame on the seller and wanting a refund then? Or would you say, "Oh, I guess it was just meant to be...?" If you did nothing wrong, and the seller did nothing wrong then why do you still feel a need to get a refund? As I said before it would be a nice gesture for the seller to give a partial good-faith refund, but technically it is not necessary.

Originally Posted by GeckoLabs

RE: Brief contact with male-
While I situated their enclosures and snapped a small number of pics was the only time they were together. None of them showed any aggression toward one another (all were in my line of sight the entire time.)

This continues to bother me. Not only because one is supposed to quarantine new critters, but because taking the risk ( of disease or adverse events) for a photo op or the minimal time to set up enclosures, was unnecessary, especially when you imply that one of your critters was ill. I would think in such circumstance quarantine would become even more important.

Originally Posted by GeckoLabs

I also need to schedule a follow up for one of our crested geckos that was on antibiotics.

I wasn't aware the content was no longer available on my page? It still shows on my Instagram feed, which is where the post was posted through, then edited on the facebook post. . . so that was in no way trying to hide anything, and the a thread on another forum containing the same picture was also shared through TheReptileReport.

And yes, I am happy with the second female. She's been doing great. Had this of ended differently I very likely would have been inquiring about more next season.

No, had the female of passed after an extended period of time, even had it of been into this week, I would chalk it up to either something underlying going on that was missed/overlooked, or something regarding husbandry. The minute period elapsed between receipt and decease was a large factor in my decision to post this after talking with Michael and thinking it over.


The crested that was on antibiotics has been off of them for a few weeks, and was never anywhere near the Abronia.

And to note, since I hadn't yet done so, and have been thinking of everything from all angles since posting, I did decide to not file a dispute. Relative to the market for the animals, I had purchased both for roughly the average of market value for an individual, which I was willing to pay to begin with.

The situation definitely sucks for myself and for Michael, as he was also rather distraught to learn it had passed.
There was a lot regarding the situation that could have been done differently. I could have picked them up on my return trip, Michael could have likewise suggested me to do so, I could have not let any direct contact occur between the three specimens, etc.

In the end, I always do everything I can to ensure my customers are happy, but am also rather selective in who I actually sell to, and it's never a problem. Through making efforts to be considerate and save us both the stress of shipping, and him the cost of a box, and being rushed, I expected consideration in return. Won't be doing that again.

Originally Posted by GeckoLabs

In the end, I always do everything I can to ensure my customers are happy, but am also rather selective in who I actually sell to, and it's never a problem. Through making efforts to be considerate and save us both the stress of shipping, and him the cost of a box, and being rushed, I expected consideration in return. Won't be doing that again.

But that is the exact problem, Mr. Damuth.

Your terms and conditions are no better then the sellers in this matter.

Guarantee

Live arrival is guaranteed for all animals unless the animal is potentially ovulating/gravid, in which case the customer will be forewarned.

The live arrival guarantee will be voided if no one is available to receive the package.

If your animal has a rapid decline in health following shipment, compensation may be awarded on a case-by-case basis, depending on situation and living conditions on the customer's end.

*Animals dead on arrival require immediate photo evidence and email to inform us of the incident.*



Sex of animals are guaranteed unless sold as unsexed, "probable" or "temperature sexed." Incorrectly sexed animals can be returned (shipping at buyers expense) for full refund, credit or replacement.



All known genetic information, regardless of chance of being present, will be listed for all animals. Animals listed as 'possible het' are not

guaranteed to carry the recessive trait.

On a flat reading of your conditions from your facebook page which you updated Oct 30, it seems you would have denied refund to him, if the circumstances where reversed.

She was ovulating, either of you knew that, but it is a condition.

And transporting and setting up twice,r as you admitted was a mistake, seems to violate your own TOS.

I get a little worried when you admit it was not the fault of the seller, but yet, your own TOS would have put you in the right in his case.

I just want to point his out, because after reading your TOS and your last post, it almost came off as being dishonest. I know you are a good person, just not coming off that way.

What is up with the sexing guarantee? I agree with all of that section except the shipping at buyer's expense part for correcting an error the seller would be responsible for.

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

What is up with the sexing guarantee? I agree with all of that section except the shipping at buyer's expense part for correcting an error the seller would be responsible for.

Temp sex animals are too young to sex. I don't guarantee the sex for temp sex either. I don't know any leopard gecko breeder that does. They are priced cheaper for that reason.

Originally Posted by Kristi23

Temp sex animals are too young to sex. I don't guarantee the sex for temp sex either. I don't know any leopard gecko breeder that does. They are priced cheaper for that reason.

I just realized you meant the shipping back part. Sorry.

Yeah, I agree with that and have the same operative style with my own sales (temp-sexed and probable males/females not being guaranteed regarding sex unless I say so). I am talking about an incorrectly labeled sex by the seller and then the buyer having to pay the shipment back for the seller's mistake.

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Yeah, I agree with that and have the same operative style with my own sales (temp-sexed and probable males/females not being guaranteed regarding sex unless I say so). I am talking about an incorrectly labeled sex by the seller and then the buyer having to pay the shipment back for the seller's mistake.

That I understand. I would first offer a partial refund if they want to keep it. Otherwise I would have them send it back at my expense since I made the mistake. Dillon is a very honest seller, so I'm not quite sure why he has it set up that way.

Originally Posted by Kristi23

That I understand. I would first offer a partial refund if they want to keep it. Otherwise I would have them send it back at my expense since I made the mistake. Dillon is a very honest seller, so I'm not quite sure why he has it set up that way.

Your decision tree for that is well-aligned with my own.