Ball Python Auctions!!!!!! Please be careful...

Originally Posted by Tropoddity

Here is a great example! You have a guy shuffling cards at a corner. He lets a couple of his own friends win to make the game really interesting. But what the other viewers do not realize those winners are his friends. And the game is always rigged in the players favor. May be to street to understand, but it is like polishing poop! No matter what or how you do it. It is still tricking people into it. Trickery is the devils game. I do not understand how it is fare to have false bidders, I want that answered.

In the scenario I was describing, I was not talking about having fake auction winners. The winning bid is the price the animal actually sells for (unless the owner is the high bidder, in which case there is no sale - and I'm not advocating that the seller "pretends" a sale occurred in that case).

Originally Posted by Tropoddity

I smell Hustle and scam before it is even designed. Trust me, 20+ years in the music game will teach you who is BS and who is not. This is shady gambling at its finest. I am glad you bring up thoroughbred auctions to make scamming more classy! My uncle was in the thoroughbred circuit, years ago. Yes he did study the market, and also got tips from people on the inside to help him bid and bet on the right horses. So, regardless you can't make cheating people a classy practice. I guess that is what you are trying to say right? This is another form of high class bidding?

I saw some poor sucker by roaches for to dang high, and the auction end still didn't deliver. I am also saying the bidding thing started to leak into places where it does not need to be. Facebook, not a great idea,that is the scam artist paradise.

Just like drug dealers give people a taste they get addicted then they mess up peoples lives. It can become very addictive once you let them win a couple times right? No matter how you look at it is a scam. Ok, lets call it a classy scam.

I think you misunderstood my reference to the thoroughbred industry. There is a HUGE difference between bidding on (and maybe ultimately buying) horses at auction and betting on horses in a race. Buying (anything) at auction is not a form of gambling and shouldn't be viewed as such. It isn't really fair to compare buying something at auction to betting on cards (or anything else).

Just to clarify the thoroughbred example, if I bid on a horse at auction I am attempting to purchase the horse. Essentially my bid is the price I am offering to pay. If I bid $20,000 and no one outbids me I buy the horse for $20,000. If I bid $20,000 and someone else bids $21,000 then I don't buy the horse but I'm not out any money either (unless I bid again and win). If I bet on a horse in a race, I'm wagering an amount of money that the horse will win. If the horse wins, I get back more than I bet and if it doesn't, I lose my money. So race fixing is a totally separate issue from what takes place at auctions.

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

It doesn't matter what "forum/method" one uses to sell their snakes, the point is the ethics behind the method. Rigging a bidding even if it's just because the seller has a certain number in mind and the rigged bidders are friends and the buyers got what they paid for... is still dishonest (IMO) and all the excuses given are simply rationalizations...whether it done in a classy or ghetto way.

Just wanted to point out that I've participated in auctions only as a buyer, so please don't imply that I'm making excuses/rationalizing because I sell my animals a certain way. And as a buyer, I've never felt scammed purchasing something at auction, regardless of who was bidding.

Originally Posted by Tropoddity

My uncle was in the thoroughbred circuit, years ago. Yes he did study the market, and also got tips from people on the inside to help him bid and bet on the right horses.

I think you misunderstood. The person said bid on horses. It means they were buying. NOT BETTING.

If you look at my title on this post what does it say.... BE CAREFUL! I am clearly looking out for the best interest of people going to auctions. When you turn a hustle or scam into a trend that is dangerious. This is why they tryed to ban Gangstar Rap and Metal years ago. People have know clue who is running it, yet they are still bidding at will. I also still see polishing poop. Maybe I am being missunderunderstood. No matter how it is done if you have hidden bidders....... Hidden bidders..... Hidden Bidders..... It is tricking the other aucitonors. CLASSY HUSTLE, SCAM. Sorry, I still can not see anything positive in auctions. When you get one of those guys to yell out the bids that speak 100 miles a minute. That is a way of getting peoples adrenaline pumping, which is a psychologyical trick.

The reptile industry is in enough threat as it is, now they want to bring gambling into it. It makes the industry look BAD! That is another reason why it will kill the market!!!!! I my self am constently trying to educate people about reptiles and letting people know they are great pets to own. While I am doing this a reptile pimp decides he wants to start gambling or you guys call it auctions.

I am sorry if I missunderstood. I just do not like how it is leaking out everywhere, in the hands of dirty people. If somone decided to do a auction and a percentage went to help something, yes they do that all the time and it is done for good fun and for a good cause. I just think it is getting into the wrong hands.

All we need is some rich kid to take daddy's money, from a daddy who happens to be a power lawyer. and place a "bid" on a auction, he doesn't win fare. The rich kid runs to daddy tells daddy. Daddy says no one does that to my son, LAW suit! Media smells this, then finds another great opportunity to make the reptile business look bad.... I know media.... Not Good

Wouldn't a legitimate auction be, well, legit? However if someone is placing shill bets or having friends bid up to raise the price, of course that is not legit and would be a scam. It sounds like you are saying any auction is a scam?

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Wouldn't a legitimate auction be, well, legit? However if someone is placing shill bets or having friends bid up to raise the price, of course that is not legit and would be a scam. It sounds like you are saying any auction is a scam?

YES! That's exactly the way I read it.

I'll wait for clarification just in case I am missing a point or not understanding.

Not all auctions are scams. I am not saying that I am simply telling people to be careful and there are people who do that. Very simple. We were just told that having hidden bidders is a common practice and I found that a little odd. Hence, in my first post I stated to be careful and there are people that do that. My post was confirmed..................

Originally Posted by Tropoddity

The reptile industry is in enough threat as it is, now they want to bring gambling into it. It makes the industry look BAD! That is another reason why it will kill the market!!!!! I my self am constently trying to educate people about reptiles and letting people know they are great pets to own. While I am doing this a reptile pimp decides he wants to start gambling or you guys call it auctions.

I'm not sure why you keep referring to auctions as gambling. It's beginning to make me wonder if we are talking about the same thing. An auction is "a public sale in which property or items of merchandise are sold to the highest bidder" (copied and pasted from the free online dictionary). An auction is a sale. It is not a form of gambling. To gamble means "to play a game of chance for stakes" or "to bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest" (also from the free online dictionary). When I bid (not bet) on an auction I don't have anything at stake. The only way money changes hands is if I win the auction, at which point it becomes a purchase and carries the usual risks associated with purchasing an animal.

Originally Posted by Tropoddity

I am sorry if I missunderstood. I just do not like how it is leaking out everywhere, in the hands of dirty people. If somone decided to do a auction and a percentage went to help something, yes they do that all the time and it is done for good fun and for a good cause. I just think it is getting into the wrong hands.

All we need is some rich kid to take daddy's money, from a daddy who happens to be a power lawyer. and place a "bid" on a auction, he doesn't win fare. The rich kid runs to daddy tells daddy. Daddy says no one does that to my son, LAW suit! Media smells this, then finds another great opportunity to make the reptile business look bad.... I know media.... Not Good

So we shouldn't have auctions because someone might sue us? I'm sorry to compare this to the thoroughbred industry again, but it's the best comparison I can think of at the moment. There's tons of money in horse racing (more than in reptiles, I'm fairly sure) and tons of "rich kids". Yet auctions happen all the time (more than private sales), and lawsuits don't.

I think it's great to warn people that auctions carry different pitfalls than private sales, but you really come across as saying that no one should buy or sell at auction (unless it's for a good cause). I personally like buying at auction, and am aware of the potential pitfalls. I don't think auctions are making the industry look bad, and I don't think they need to be shut down.

I'm not in the horse world but I'm pretty sure there aren't any penny auctions going on there.

That's the pitfall. It's very easy to scam in a penny auction. little zackeroni and avi dervonder programmer proved themselves to be lying sacks of crap that rigged their entire site. With the penny auctions you don't see fellow bidders, the time is reset after every bid, and you need to have faith that the guys behind the scenes are trustworthy.

Neither of the clowns running ballbids was trustworthy at all.

So I'm not so sure how your horse auctions really compare to penny auctions. Unless, of course, there actually are penny auctions for thoroughbreds.

In my first post, I specifically said I wasn't talking about penny auctions, and since the OP never specified that he was talking about penny auctions, I interpreted his posts to be referring to all auctions in general and not penny auctions specifically.