Vincent Vecci/Ultimate Reptiles...

I bought a really sweet high-end tortoise from him this summer, and the transaction went smooth as silk. I received a healthy, quality animal at a reasonable price and am now thinking of contacting him again about another tort. However, after discovering the BOI last month, I am trying to play it safe.

So, any opinions out there, good or bad, on Vince Vecci of Ultimate Reptiles (CA)? Is he as reputable a herp dealer as he seems?

--Lisa L. Waltz

Lisa.... what's the problem?? You said your transaction went "smooth as silk"??? Why are you asking about him now?? If I did a deal with someone, and it went smoothly (as always), I would be pretty insulted if that person asked about me??

....Neil

Simple, Neil... it's called setting the bait. A seller of ill-intent could start with a "good" deal and make the Buyer vulnerable to rip-offs in ensuing deals. Admittedly, it's not a common strategy, but it has been known to happen, especially with expensive items.

Accordingly, I am asking if anyone has heard of this seller, for good or ill.

BTW, I don't think taking reasonable precautions (such as asking for information from the more experienced herpers on the BOI) should be grounds for insult to a named seller when thousands of dollars are involved.

Just my humble opinion.

--Lisa L. Waltz

Lisa.... you've got a valid point! I can certainly appreciate that.... I didn't realize you were talking about big bucks (you didn't mention that).... with that in mind, I really can't blame you for being cautious.... as a matter of fact.... I should probably COMMEND you for coming here and having the guts to post this AFTER a good deal has already been completed??
Have you ever actaully spoke to him personally on the phone?? That's ALWAYS a good idea when purchasing ANYTHING! Especially big stuff....
It's obvious that you know what you're doing, and I apologize if you thought I was degrading you in any way! Good luck with your purchase.... unfortunately, I don't know the man....

....Neil

My only dealing with ultimate reptiles, vince,was a complete disaster. I have never been treated worse. I bought an Aldabra tortoise from him, It was 10" and he asked 1850.00 shipped, I mailed him postal M.O. for the amount, I received the tortoise and it was smashed, It was healed so this was not something that happened recently. I was completely appalled so I called Vince from the airport to tell him the animal was completly unacceptable and I would be returning it for a refund. He replied "if you ship it back I will not pick it up at the airport" He further stated his animals are guaranteed at his discretion only, and that tortoise was not. The tortoise did not even have use of his hind legs. Then to add more insult to injury, He called me 2 days later and said "send that tortoise back and if I can sell it I will give 1/2 your money back. My reply was you are a complete f#####g conterfeit I had given him postal M.O. and now I know I should filed charges. So I learned a good 1850.00 lesson. Somehow in the back of my mind, I know he will be paid back for his sorry conduct.

Lee Watson

I would not deal with Vincent Velci. I had a very bad experience with him about nine months ago.
In February 2002, I contacted a guy I know in southern California and decided to but two yearling stars from him. The plan was for me to meet him in Phoenix. A couple of days after I make this plan with him Vince called me. He said that he was a friend of the star breeder and that he had heard I was looking for pancakes. I decided not to get the pancakes that he was selling, and then he mentioned that he had a sexed pair of C.B Indian Star tortoises (5 inch female, 4 inch male). He raved about how beautiful the female was and how large the parents of the stars were. He said that a friend of his bred them, and that he had them since they were hatchlings. I decided to buy them for $1000.
After I talked to him I sent money orders out to the star breeder and Vince. All three of us decided that it would be best if the star breeder brought the pair to Phoenix along with the two yearlings that I had purchased from him. A couple of days before I was supposed to meet the star breeder, Vince called me up and said that he had an extra male that he would also be willing to sell for $300. I told him that I was not interested and he said that he would send me a receipt in the mail.
When I met the star breeder on February 20th he gave me the four stars. The pair both had tape on their back indicating their sex. The “female” was about four inches and one of the most obvious males I had ever seen. He exposed himself almost immediately after I picked him up. The other one was about 4.5 inches, and also a male. They both had a fair amount of shell damage, and were almost definitely wild caught. They both looked awful, their legs were thin, and their eyes were sunken in. They smelled awful (I was already thinking Hexamita). The star breeder also gave me the receipt. I was very surprised when attached to that sheet was a very long list of terms that I had no knowledge about. Apparently Vince had tried to send me the receipt and terms, but he had used an envelope that had previously been addressed to him. This meant that it just got sent back to him because the barcode for his zip code had already been imprinted on the envelope. He had to know that this would happen.
I called him as soon as I got back to my car, and left a message. I finally got a hold of him after I got home. I told him I was very unhappy with them, and he said to bad. He told me that by accepting them I agreed to his terms. If I had known about his terms I would never have bought from him in the first place. One of his justifications for not taking them back was because the stress of shipping them would probably kill them. He also still claimed that they were C.B., but he would not even agree to give my e-mail to the women who bred them. He said that he did not want to disturb her.
I set the stars up in their own room, away from the rest of my collection (which is all C.B.). I set them up on newspaper so that I could monitor their urine and feces. They both had mucous in their nares (I suspected Mycoplasma) and the first time I soaked them they drank a lot. After I pulled them out the water was tinted green. Well, needless to say, I called my vet and got an appointment for February 22nd. The first time I saw their urine it was one of the worst cases of biliverdin I had ever seen. Their urine was literally bright green (this is caused by the breakdown of bile in the liver). There is no way that Vince could not have known about this because they were in the latter stages of biliverdin. Their urine probably would have been tinted green for at least a couple of weeks.
I went to the vet on February 22nd, and sure enough they both had Hexamita parva (a parasite that attacks the liver) and Mycoplasma agassizii (a bacteria that causes runny noses). They both had to be treated with flagyl at the vet’s office, and I had to flush out their nares with a baytril, dexameth, and saline solution every 72 hours for the next nine days. I also had to return in three weeks to get them re-flagyled. There was also evidence that somebody had used panacur on them, because their was nothing alive in the feces except Hexamita (which is not killed by panacur).
I called up Vince again and was very upset. He claimed once again that these animals were a captive bred pair. He also said that he had had them wormed at his vets office. This was interesting for three reasons. The first one being that most people do not worm C.B. tortoises that they have had since they were hatchlings. The second reason this is interesting is that all herpetological vets would be able to identify Hexamita in the stool, and thirdly, most vets do not use panacur (it is not the best thing to use on tortoises). During that phone call he said that he would take the animals back, but would only refund me if he resold them (keep in mind that before I had taken them to the vet he said that they would not survive shipping). I did not like this idea for a couple of reasons. First of all, he told me over the phone that since there was nothing wrong with these animals that he would not continue treating them, which meant that they would almost certainly die. I was not willing to let that happen. Second of all, I seriously doubted that I would ever see any of my money back.
I then tried calling him a few more times, he was never home. He finally called me back and was very mad at me. He said that his vet had never heard of Hexamita and that he did not think that it was a problem. After he yelled at me for a few minutes I handed the phone over to my boyfriend. Vince told him that he would consider a full refund, but that the tortoises would not survive the shipping. My boyfriend them said that we would drive them to La Mirada (which is where Vince lived). This is about twenty hour round trip for us. Vince’s response was that if my boyfriend came anywhere near his house that he would “put a forty-four caliber through your f@#*ing skull”. After that Vince hung up the phone. I had had enough, so I called the La Mirada police and reported the incident, they then told me contact my local police. I then reported it to the local sheriff who took my information. A deputy called me back and I filed an official police report (#020222381). She also said that they would contact the La Mirada police and inform them that Vincent Velci was not to come anywhere near us.
About four days later I received a very long sob letter from Vince. He ramble on about how everyone has to deal with losses, and that he would either refund me $200 or buy back the “female” for $500 (only if she was in the same health as when I received her). I decided to just take the $200. I wrote him back and told him of my choice. He then called me and asked if I would rather take a pair of blue-tongued skinks rather than the $200. My answer was no.
He did finally send me my $200. I also spent about six weeks rehabilitating the stars. They finally started eating after the second dose of flagyl, and their Mycoplasma cleared up. My vet gave them a clean bill of health so I decided to sell them. I was upfront with the buyer about their history, and sold them to him at a good deal. I lost a fair amount of money on the whole deal, but I am glad that the stars are healthy and went to a good home.
In closing, I would never deal with Vince again, and would strongly urge anyone else to not deal with him. I still have all the documents from our transaction (including the receipt, the terms, the envelope, the letter, the vet bills, and my notes.) The whole experience was a costly nightmare, and I feel sorry for any of the animals currently in his collection. One of the things that it says on his terms is that all animals that are sold “meet our standards as if we were keeping them for our own stock!”. I sure hope not, but you never know.

Merri and Lee,

OUCH! That both sucks and blows. I'm so sorry that you received damaged animals and such lousy customer service. However, I do thank you so much for posting your experiences and confirming my darkest suspicions. My own UR tortoise seems fine, but maybe that's only because Vince knows that I'm a lawyer...

In any case, since I don't feel like playing Russian roulette with my money, I'll stick to purchasing any future livestock from reputable dealers like Neil et al.

--Lisa L. Waltz

Update: got a phone call from Vince. He was very hurt about this thread. I want to offer him my apologies. I got a great deal from him and did not mean to suggest that he in any way cheated me or intended to do so. My aldabra is a fine animal, and Vince gave me a fine deal on it.

--llw

By the way: after a long conversation with Vince, I would now feel quite comfortable with buying another high-end tortoise from him!! In fact, when I get the proper permits, I'll be asking him to find me a nice galap!! :-)

--llw

Lisa,
It is your business where you decide to spend your money. But both these horror stories are just that. Alot of people are very friendly and personable on the phone, but once thrown into a circumstance where they have to correct something they've wronged, they show their true colors. If he indeed sent out a previously smashed tortoise that was healed over, and did not mention it to the buyer, that is very bad! If he sent out a parasite infested captive bred tortoise that had been treated with panacur and did not tell you. If he notify's you of terms that are somewhat iffy after a sale and always answers negativity with too bad... I wouldn't touch it. Buyer discretion is advised~ ;-)
Thanks, Tom Baker