is usark over stepping its rights by proposing rules for states without asking us

Originally Posted by Taking Up Serpents

I give you credit for doing something. I respect that initiative. You don't like the majority plan and you are free to do so. I don't fault you for that. However take this as constructive criticism to your plan of action. The only disagreement is running a smear campaign against H$U$. Why try to smear their name when the basic truth will suffice? With groups like HW doing a fine job you can concentrate those funds and resources to other areas.

Yea, I agree. IMO, there is no need for a smear campaign, the truth will most likely get the job done.

But I do have respect for you for taking action. Not many actually do.

Join the fight? That is the thing... I have been fighting these things for years. The laws and bills are nothing new. We fight them all the time. The only difference is now we have a place called USARK that is helping us fight. Is everything with USARK perfect? NO... But no one is perfect....

I can not honestly think of a year we have not face something.

Well, I'd say the radio show went well. When asked USARK's stance on the reptiles listed on Phillips proposed bill (HB352), he said "remove all reptiles" and reiterated that.
You also don't have to join. But please get on the mailing list to keep up with what's going on. If you don't keep aware of what's going on, it may be too late.

HW fights the HSUS tooth and nail, WITHOUT a smear campaign.

If you try to run an opposition with a smear campaign, it makes it look like you have no legitimate complaints against HSUS. Use the truth against them, there's plenty of truth to make them look horrible, without making up anything. So using smear tactics hurts your position.

Perhaps you didn't mean a 'smear' campaign, but simply pointing out all the sleazy stuff HSUS does do?

You can also spread education about reptile keeping by pointing out the actual statisitics. I believe HW or USARK has a flier that points out the super low numbers of reptile incidents vs dogs or cats or horses. It's extremely effective in opening people's eyes.

See now there ya go, Rodney...we can all respect someone who is actually coming up with a plan of action, and actually ACTING on it. The ability to sit down and rationally discuss this plan, and what parts of it will work and those that won't - even better.

My suggestion would be to not just inform people about the HSUS, but incorporate that together with some good factual information about reptile keeping, and why the HSUS is clueless. In my experience, people are more receptive to this kind of info when they know WHY you are giving them this info - that you are not just on a "witch-hunt" against the HSUS as such, but that you have legitimate involvement and personal concerns in the matter. Kind of a more "big-picture" sort of thing...sure, there are actually plenty of people out there that in some sense know that the HSUS is in many respects a load of manure, but don't realize how and why it actually can personally affect many people. You know, the whole "yeah well it doesn't affect ME, so why should I care?" sort of mentality.

a smear campaign is when you try and show some one in a negative light. fortunately hsus is so corrupt that we dont need to lie and about anything to do a smear campaign just put out as many fact as we can. thats what a meant. i didnt mean we should go around saying wyane pacelle is a baby rapist or anything like that

The way to attack is always to show that we are above what they do.

WE do not need to smear we need to educate.

Knowledge is going to be the downfall of them if we can keep calm and educate the ones that will listen or we will be just like any other system...

I do not want to hear how bad the other side is. I want to here how great one side is and what it can do for everyone around.

Like The reptile business helps the economy.

The Reptile Business Employs people

The reptile hobby does not harm people

Educate about said species.

SHow the GOOD side of our hobby.

YOu can do more with kindness then you can with evil.

WE are not animals... We do not need to lower ourselves to their level to win.

Originally Posted by Gary O

The way to attack is always to show that we are above what they do.

WE do not need to smear we need to educate.

Knowledge is going to be the downfall of them if we can keep calm and educate the ones that will listen or we will be just like any other system...

I do not want to hear how bad the other side is. I want to here how great one side is and what it can do for everyone around.

Like The reptile business helps the economy.

The Reptile Business Employs people

The reptile hobby does not harm people

Educate about said species.

SHow the GOOD side of our hobby.

YOu can do more with kindness then you can with evil.

WE are not animals... We do not need to lower ourselves to their level to win.

if you think knowledge and common sense reigns supreme in this country you need to wake up and take a look around. this country is full of people that dont care about facts. thats why hsus has been so successful

i think htis thread has been highly useless. so let say taht i know agree with all of you and bmp's are the way to go. lets discuss them and why they will work and lets see if there are any issues inherent in them that need fixed before they are enacted.

so why are bmp's good

what will they bring about

why problems will they resolve

and most importantly what new problems could they bring about.

please refrain for hypotheticals and claims that have no empirical data to back them.

for example saying bmp's will work because they rational sense or because they just will is not proof.

if we are to be fair we need to discuss this within the rules of argumentation. simply have an opinion is not adequate proof for anything and if you propose an argument or explanation and an argument is brought against it you must address it not just go off on another issues. so if anyone can propose an argument for bmp's that is sound i will accept it.


personally i dont think the real problem is with the bmp's. i think its the implications of them that pose the greatest threat.

so enough of us just throwing our opinions at each other and i i ask these questions


so why are bmp's good

what will they bring about

why problems will they resolve

and most importantly what new problems could they bring about.