limit this site to sells for pet. propagation. education. collecting purposes

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Sure, if that's what you want to use the site for, there's a section called Member to Member flea market for items that don't fit in any of the existing categories.

edit - oops I see Brian already pointed that out!

You mean I can just post it in the turtles and tortoises for sale section, if the sausage is made of snapping turtle?

Really, I think it's being blown way out of proportion, the difficulty of recognizing which posts are being sold for food, and which are for pets. You don't have to pick apart, or analyze each and every post. It's blatantly obvious that the snapping turtles are being sold as food, every bit as it was obvious that radiated tortoise in the auction is a scam. Maybe you don't have to delete the post, but maybe some sort of disclaimer should be required to keep people from opening and being offense by the post "for sale common snapping turtles (warning, sold as food)". Really I don't care either way at all, if you want to allow the sales of turtles as food, that's fine. I do stand by my opinion that this is a forum meant for personal collection of fauna, and the purchase of food, and habitats for our fauna. Not a place to sell food to people.....unless that post was moved to the area I was suggested to sell my super cheap snapping turtle sausage pizza.

Lynching fest aside...

While I personally find it deplorable to sell wildlife, legally or otherwise, to the Asian markets right now considering the western black rhino was officially declared extinct yesterday due to poaching for the Asian medicine market, at least the state of Georgia now issues commercial licenses to keep track of turtles sold and exported to Asia. This legislation was only enacted a couple of years ago. Prior to then turtles were being exported with no regulation and no limit (to my knowledge).

Do I think it was tasteless to post such an ad on this site? Yes. Would I have allowed the ad to persist had I been in Rich's shoes? No. However, the ad did bring into public awareness that exportation of our native fauna to Asian markets is a huge problem. In Georgia turtles are protected. Other states lack protection. If you really want to make a difference, start contacting your state Department of Natural Resources (or whatever your state calls the office) and your state legislators. I find it hopeful that a state as inherently conservative (and thus anti-environmental) as Georgia passed a law protecting native turtles by regulating the trade. I hope other states follow suit.

I never meant for this to get so out of control, it seems like Ron maybe knows the seller? I dont really know, but, the seller nicely notified me and said he sells his turtles for $150 each and that.... he does not sell for meat... so, at this point....... his word is good enough, besides that, it really doesnt matter.... only because, it legal like Rich mentioned..... Sorry for stirring up trouble... at least it brought attention to quiet a few very important subjects... for the recorded, I did receive infractions (4 points) for posting in a wrong area.

Kevin, you brought up a valid concern that obviously other folks were also concerned with. All such concerns should be encouraged to be raised.

And honestly, if you're selling to Asia, you're selling turtles for meat. Either your international broker is lying to you or you're lying to yourself. Simple as that. No one buys pet snapping turtles for $150. No one goes and catches snapping and musk turtles in such bulk with intentions to sell them to a nonexistent Asian 'pet' market. Let's at least be honest here.

This site is not appropriate for the wild catching of native wild life being sold for food. End of discussion.

Asia has a huge pet market for mud and musk turtles, as well as spotteds and other small turtles not native to Asia. So yes, the musk turtles are going there as pets. At one point they were paying nearly 400 a piece for stripe necks.

oh yea! you mean like these cute pet turtles?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...ing/index.html


sorry I just couldnt refrain! lol

not sure about you guys but a 60 pound snapping turtle hanging from my keychain would kinda get cumbersome!!!

The point is that some of you apparently want ME to make the determination of what a proposed sale of animals is intended for. That I should be some sort of investigator, perhaps grilling the person placing the classified ad, and I guess doing the same for any prospective buyers. Yes?

You all want ME to take the brunt if I guess wrong about someone's intentions. You want ME to take the legal heat if I damage someone's reputation by publicly castigating them for POSSIBLY engaging in something that although distasteful, seems to be perfectly legal to do. Yes?

You all are SERIOUSLY overestimating what I am willing to do for YOU.

I understand now how this would be impossible to control. I also see how many people care about this issue from the great amount of responses and views to all the links to the mentioned adds/ forums etc.

Would it be at least reasonable to have these adds placed in other sections of the classifieds? NOT in the same sections where we sell our beloved pets? Like we have a place for feeder animals, and you guys do not allow feeders on any other forums. how about bulk/human food animals for sale like these belonging in another section perhaps? like ' All other herp related material'? or ' Trading and bartering?

just my two cents.

You do a great job with this website Rich. I am just posting about this here because it bothered me and apparently a lot of other users as well. We care enough about your site to write our issues here But at the same time we all have to respect the rules and the moderators... I got 4 points infraction to prove it

Originally Posted by WebSlave

The point is that some of you apparently want ME to make the determination of what a proposed sale of animals is intended for. That I should be some sort of investigator, perhaps grilling the person placing the classified ad, and I guess doing the same for any prospective buyers. Yes?

You all want ME to take the brunt if I guess wrong about someone's intentions. You want ME to take the legal heat if I damage someone's reputation by publicly castigating them for POSSIBLY engaging in something that although distasteful, seems to be perfectly legal to do. Yes?

You all are SERIOUSLY overestimating what I am willing to do for YOU.

Turtles by the pound isn't all that different from the old corn snakes by the foot...and it doesn't always mean that they are for food. (okay, I'll admit that specifying Asian market does point toward that).

The simplest point is that we aren't micromanaging the classifieds to that extent.. We don't read every ad; and we don't offer guarantees that the sellers are legitimate, that the animals/items are legal, or anything else. I understand that the concept is offensive - or, at least objectionable - to some...but I don't get some of the logic that has been tossed around in this thread. (I would go into more detail, but I'm out of time.)

Oh, btw, what's with all the comments about the infractions? Whether you guys are whining, griping, commiserating, proclaiming, taking one for the team, or playing martyr - it's gotten old, already. Let it go.