Looking to Get Into the Herp Hobby... Need Advice!

Racks are great and cheaper than aquariums. Although for breeding you might get a large aquarium to observe the breeding. Like Jamie said it IS expensive. You also need to think about the incubator, which is gonna cost you. Thats why I have to wait till I'm older and able to move out... Also my mom doesn't want any more snakes in the house .
Any way.. you asked some questions, although they weren't to me I'll still answer :

I have no experience with all of the things I read on the sites about racks though (heat tape and all that stuff), does that usually come built into the rack, or do you have to install everything yourself?

Well, heat tape you have to install yourself. As for the rack, you can buy at a local store or have someone ship.. your option.

Also, what is the prefered tub size for breeders?

I read up on that and it said: 40x56x15cm. I might be wrong though.

Just curious - why did you suggest a pastel male? What price do they usually run for?

Pastels are a great first morph, they are the cheapest morph. They are about $150-$300.

Most companies offer racks to be set up with either heat tape (flex watt) or a heat rope. Some companies have a choice, and you let them know which way you prefer. The racks come unassembled, but predrilled for ease of construction, and you'll most like have to install the heat source yourself, but they'll send instructions usually.

If you go with building a rack, you'll still need to acquire either heat tape, or heat rope. For ease of assembly and use, I'd go with the flex 3 inch on a homemade rack, else you have to route a path for the heat rope to be installed properly. In either case, they don't include thermostats. That's like ALWAYS a separate item.
A hint...if you build your own, make sure you go get the tubs you want to use first, so you can make the shelves to fit accordingly. I'll look around, but seems to me someone posted complete instructions on a fairly nice homemade rack they built. If I can find it, I'll post the link.

You'll want a temp gun to make sure everything is working, without depending solely upon the reading of the thermostat. I have gotten some that were off a little. In an enclosure like a tub inside a rack, a little extra heat, or not enough, can make a big difference on the environment within the tub. Important to get those temps right, and without an independent reading, you may not be at what it says you are.

Good luck!
Rick

OFF TOPIC a little bit...

Donnie, welcome to fauna. Just wanted to say, we are herpers. Our animals come first in most cases. Abigail is unsure, and asking questions, doing her homework, BEFORE she goes and gets the critters she seeks. This is a responsible act. It makes all the difference when asking for advice.

Try understanding how many people we read about who have made their new snakes, or lizards sick, and some that died, all because of not doing the responsible thing, and researching first, to find out if they are capable of providing the proper care needed.

It's all about the reptiles bro. We just don't like reading the horror stories that often accompany irresponsible acts like rushing into purchasing, with no homework done. It's the animal that suffers in the long run.

Sorry to take your thread off topic Abigail. But i felt the need to say that.

Good luck on your mission!
Rick

Originally Posted by Abby

....Just curious - why did you suggest a pastel male? What price do they usually run for?

I suggest a pastel male because they are relatively inexpensive (>$300), and they mix well with other morphs. So your initial breedings would not only be good experience, but they could also produce some female pastels that you could use to start your colony. You could pick up a spider the next year and produce bees. Or you could start a POG or pastel yellow belly project.

After you have a little experience breeding BP's you can start to spend a little more on animals. Or better yet, trade some of the animals you don't need for morphs you don't have.

Originally Posted by garweft

I suggest a pastel male because they are relatively inexpensive (>$300), and they mix well with other morphs. So your initial breedings would not only be good experience, but they could also produce some female pastels that you could use to start your colony. You could pick up a spider the next year and produce bees. Or you could start a POG or pastel yellow belly project.

After you have a little experience breeding BP's you can start to spend a little more on animals. Or better yet, trade some of the animals you don't need for morphs you don't have.

Oh okay. Makes sense : ) I think that is what I'll do. I think the plan for this year will be:

1) Get my setup fixed up
- so far I'm looking at Freedom Breeder cages
- Still looking for an incubator, may build one if I can find plans
2) Get a scale
3) Establish whether or not I'm going to breed mice or just buy them as I go
4) Purchase an 06 Pastel male to breed this year to my normal
5) look into buying a 1.1 pair of 100% het. Albinos or pieds
6) Enjoy!

I've got another question: In ball pythons, is it a normal thing to breed daughters to fathers, sons to mothers, or other linebreeding practices? I was thinking if I got some pastels out of the pastel x normal cross I could hold back a pastel female and breed her to the father later to try and get some supers. In the other species of animals I've raised linebreeding was very common, so i figured it would be in snakes too.

It is done, but unless you are working with something "special" that you are hoping to prove out, there isn't much reason to. *Not wanting to spend the money is not a good reason.* Pastels are cheap, you will produce a litter or two before your first female is ready to breed - trade a male for a male with somebody at a show, or <gasp> buy another one. At the very least, acquire a second female to breed & pair up half sibs.
Don't misunderstand, line breeding is done - and accepted when trying to "prove out" a trait; but too many people view it as a way of creating their own breeding colony.

Nothing against Freedom Breeder - buy I don't understand why you would be looking to start there...especially since you currently have 1 snake, and are just starting to think about breeding. It's just a lot of bucks to drop. For substantially less money, you could get something from RBI, AP, or whoever - something that is more suited to your current needs.

Rodents - unfortunately, if you are going to breed balls, you almost have to breed your own. Baby balls are not exactly known for their willingness to start of f/t prey. Unless you have a confirmed and consistent local source of nestling (or appropriately sized) rodents, it is something you will have to deal with...or you could just wholesale off the entire clutch upon hatching, "right out of the egg"

Originally Posted by hhmoore

It is done, but unless you are working with something "special" that you are hoping to prove out, there isn't much reason to. *Not wanting to spend the money is not a good reason.* Pastels are cheap, you will produce a litter or two before your first female is ready to breed - trade a male for a male with somebody at a show, or <gasp> buy another one. At the very least, acquire a second female to breed & pair up half sibs.
Don't misunderstand, line breeding is done - and accepted when trying to "prove out" a trait; but too many people view it as a way of creating their own breeding colony.

Nothing against Freedom Breeder - buy I don't understand why you would be looking to start there...especially since you currently have 1 snake, and are just starting to think about breeding. It's just a lot of bucks to drop. For substantially less money, you could get something from RBI, AP, or whoever - something that is more suited to your current needs.

Rodents - unfortunately, if you are going to breed balls, you almost have to breed your own. Baby balls are not exactly known for their willingness to start of f/t prey. Unless you have a confirmed and consistent local source of nestling (or appropriately sized) rodents, it is something you will have to deal with...or you could just wholesale off the entire clutch upon hatching, "right out of the egg"

I started looking around other cage sites, and i think i have changed my mind. Freedom breeder has nice cages but i think i want to start with something a little more economical. I came across Jason's Jungle cages and i think i'm going to go with one of their racks now. I just want to have a nice setup that won't break the bank : ) I'm still not too keen on how to get the temperatures perfect and i haven't decided on a thermostat yet. I guess i should just wait until i get the rack though. Thinking about everything at once is well.... overwhelming! There are no snake breeders around me that i know of and i don't personally know any snake breeders, so everything you guys tell me has really helped me out so far. Thank you all, I think i like the snake community better than the rabbit/goat community already : )

If you are going with the plastic racks, get the ones from Animal Plastics.
They are built solid and the customer service from them is second to none. They will be there talking to you at 1am if you have any problem with one of their products. I cannot stress how happy I am with their racks (and I have used several other manufacturers racks in the past).

Freedom Breeders are just way too overpriced IMO plus they have been known to be difficult to keep the humidity right in them. You will want to be able to increase the humidity when the snakes go into shed.

For temperature control, go with a pulse proportional thermostat. Helix or Herpstat are good ones. I use Herpstat and have never had any problems with them.

Starting with a male pastel and a female spider would be a good way to go. You could hit the odds and get normals, spiders, pastels, and bumblebees in the first clutch. Even if you don't hit the odds and get a bee you will still most likely have a spider or 2 or a pastel or 2 that can be traded or sold to acquire additional breeding stock.

Try to stay away from line breeding unless you have a one of a kind animal that you are trying to find out the genetics on.

If you are buying hets, make sure you check the person out before sending money. There are a lot of honest sellers who you can buy guarenteed hets from but there are also scammers. Since you cannot tell a het from looking at it, you have to trust the seller. Checking the BOI would be a good way to verify if the seller is trustworthy and if their hets have been proven by others.

The reptile community is tight knit. All of the people are willing to help and you will also find that since it is tight knit, any person trying to rip someone off will be exposed and made public knowledge to try and prevent any further scams.

Good luck with your plans.

I will look into Animal Plastics. I noticed that they have normal racks and economy racks, and the only difference is that the economy ones don't have solid side or back panels. Will this make a huge difference in temps and humidity?

I will also look into those brand thermostats. Should I stear clear away from off/on thermostats?

I am definitely going to buy a pastel male, but I don't think I will have the funds to buy a spider female just yet (even though I would more than LOVE to!).

That is one thing I am weary about on buying hets - I know there are a lot of nice breeders out there but you've still got to be careful. I am going to definitely check out the BOI before I buy from people.

I'm glad the reptile community cares so much about each other - that is very reasurring! I'm glad I am getting into something that most of the society is kindhearted helpful people.

If the room you are going to keep the rack in does not go below 75 degrees, then the open design would be fine. As far as humidity goes, you may find the open design a little better. AP racks hold heat and humidity very well. At times I feel it holds humidity a little too well.

This is what happens when I put in new cypress mulch. I have to let it dry before putting it in the tub otherwise it causes a lot of condensation. Great when the snake is in shed, Bad when I just want to open a bag of mulch and replace the substrate.


The on/off ones are not as good as the proportional. With the on/off type, once the max temp is reached, the heat source is shut off. Wehn it drops below the minimum, the heat source is turned back on. Hard to keep a nice constant temp and the on/off shortens the life of the heating element.

With the proportional ones, the current is reduced but never shut off and it can hold temps within a degree. Nice and precise especially if you want to use one for an incubator.