ExoticsRUs Killed my snake and expect me to pay for it... **PICS** PLEASE READ!BEWARE

I recently made a purchase with ExoticsRus for an adult male taiwan beauty. After talking with Ray Hunter I thought I was dealing with a trust and honest guy... HA!
I called him many times talking to him about the snake, and arranging shipping. I purchased the snake over Kingsnake.com and in the ad there was NO mention of shipping or arrival gaurantees. I called him up, asking about shipping and he told me via airborne express. I have an airborne express account so gave him my account number and all was said and done. I sent my money and awaited my snake...

When the airborne truck came to me the delivery man gave me a box that was 9" long, 6" deep, and only 3" high. I looked at my husband and exclaimed " A 6 FOOT TAIWAN BEAUTY SNAKE IS IN THIS?!?!" I opened the box, and what I found was a snake bag laying inside and this....

link = http://www.knology.net/~johansson/screwed2.jpg
No styrofoam... No Newspaper for buffering. Just a dead gorgeouse taiwan cramped in the tiny-est of bags in the smallest box immaginable...

link = http://www.knology.net/~johansson/screwed4.jpg

link = http://www.knology.net/~johansson/screwed5.jpg

link = http://www.knology.net/~johansson/screwed6.jpg

I called him up to report the death and my responce was " we don't gaurantee live arrival if it isn't with delta " and then there was one of my favorites " the box wasn't too small!! that's the size of their hideboxes!! " and then another classic "no cushioning needed because they are housed on newspaper "
It doesn't take a genius to know that you cannot compare hideboxes with SHIPPING boxes and padding needed to withstand the bumps compared to substrate!!! AND THE BOX WAS WAY TO SMALL!!! They said that I should have read the "fine print" on the website... I didn't even purchase the snake through the website and when asked about shipping the ONLY option given was via airborne.

ALL in ALL--I paid for an exceptional snake, and these people took the MINIMAL of care and were completely lazy. No styrofoam for insulation, no newspaper for padding, NOTHING. They treated my snake with no care at all and expect me to suffer the loss.
I told them I would spread the word... they acted like it wouldn't hurt them at all.....

Prove them wrong!
Charlotte and Daniel Johansson
djohansson@knology.net

Just an FYI...there is already an ongoing thread related to this at the below link.



http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...6&goto=newpost




-jason carl

Thanks for letting me know... I posted this before I saw the first thread but am still FUMING MAD!!!
He mentions in his latest responce " Will handle the business with the customer accordingly " but i'm STILL WAITING for a responce! I haven't gotton an email or anything so far...

Only time will tell...
I'd be willing to drop it when my refunded money is in my hands...

I know it's hard but be patient. It was pretty unanimous in the thread that we all felt you were owed a refund or a replacement. I'm sure he'll do the right thing.

That sucks. I have had that happen to me exactly the same way twice as well. I will help your cause and not buy anything from them..
The way I see it is if you cannot guarentee any live shippment in anyway then you have no business shipping.

Just realised that they are the same people that that did the same thing to me. I asked how they ship with out even knowing they had a website luckly my snakes made it alive but the box they used was a cricket box with screen on the sides with news paper inside. my temps were 60's and I told them that. They were gravid amazons to boot.

DELETED - violation of FULL NAME rule.

WebSlave

White Dove, you already have one warning point for not including your full name on your post. This will be two if you don't add it before webslave sees it.

Me again, I am gonna stick my neck out on the chopping block here. Ray is a friend of mine, and I help him a lot at his shop. So I am not really trying to take sides in this, I want him to do what is right. He told me yesterday that he is going to make good on the snake, even though he is NOT SURE that he is a factor in it's death. In all fairness, it is unfair to post that he "KILLED MY SNAKE" because as he puts it, NOBODY KNOWS how the snake died, and exactly why. He said that after seeking you all's advise on this site, he feels that he needs to reconsider their packing methods, and possibly stop using Airborne express to ship. Again in fairness, it is unreasonable to have an unconditional live arrival guarantee when you are shipping something that is not even allowed to be shipped via airborne. IF airborne does kill the animal, should the shipper always just refund the money without having the ability to get it back from the shipping service??? That is why he prefers to ship via delta. I took the liberty to copy and paste a part of one of Ray's posts on kingsnake (he says this is posted to every ad he puts on Kingsnake:

Please CALL 772-215-7625 FOR INFO, ORDERING, and quantity prices. Unless otherwise indicated, the above animals are wild caught imports, that have been de-wormed, and are feeding. They are in “apparent” good health. I strongly recommend that all animals (captive born and wild caught) be quarantined, checked by a vet, and treated accordingly. Venomous reptiles will not be knowingly sold or shipped where they are prohibited unless you fax us your permit. No sales to minors. Proof of age may be required. Orders containing venomous reptiles cannot be shipped door to door. Shipping of all venomous snakes (including rear-fanged snakes) is via Delta Dash ($75.00) or Delta Air Cargo (+/- $68.00 collect) only. There is a $20.00 minimum box charge for all orders containing venomous reptiles. Other animals can be shipped via Airborne Express for around $40.00 (packing charges may be applied). Conditional live arrival guarantee only. Please read my complete terms and information, which can be found on my web site. I will be happy to answer any additional questions you have BY PHONE. We take all major Credit cards, MO, Pay Pal etc.
Sorry, no trades..."


I agree that Ray does not spell out "NO LIVE ARRIVAL GUARANTEE" but it does say "conditional" and prompt the reader to go to his site to read the "fine print" (incidentally, the first line of his so called fine print covers the fact that he does not guarantee live arrival for any shipment other than airport to airport).

Ray feels 100% certain that this customer is on the up and up, but I know he has had a lot of scammers try to play games, and from looking at most of the posts on this site, so have a lot of you all. I have too. Ray liked that snake, and was hesitant to break up the pair for her, so I doubt that if he made a shipping error it was intentional. He now feels (after talking with a lot of you all) that he needs to upgrade his shipping. AND HE SAYS HE WILL DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THIS CUSTOMER, but it is a weekend, and we have been very busy with post Hamburg work as well as moving to a new warehouse, so give him a break, and lets all see if he will do whatever is right. In all the years I have known him, he always seem to make good on everything he could.

Jim, Ray tells me that you should have no ought with him, because Danny sold you those Amazon tree boas, not Ray. He said that Danny used his Airborne account to ship to you, but Ray did not pack or ship you those snakes, they were Danny's, not Ray's. Lets all be a little fair, and not just head straight for the gallows.

One other point, yesterday I measured one of the airborne boxs Ray uses to ship, and not that it makes much difference, but the EXACT measurements are as follows: 9.5" (l) X 7.5" (w) X 4.76" (h), so both Mrs Johnson and Ray were BOTH wrong in their estimates of the box size (again, noth that 1.75" makes a hugh difference, but it does have a psycological effect to some readers).

Ray said he will not (and does not have time to) get on a computer and argue back and forth. He wanted advice, he got it, and he says he will follow it. So lets all put away the shot guns, and see what happens.


p.s.- obviously Ray does value your opinions, or he would not have asked, so to say that he is uncaring about what people post on the internet about him is very untrue. Again, I am only putting out my neck for him like this because he is a good guy that values his integrity, and he won't do it himself.
Tahnks all
Wayne Shaw

Two items:

1) That is a terrible packing job. Maybe it would work in early spring when temps are mild but I am in Detroit Michigan and it is 90 here this week! Why wouldn't you use a styrofoam insulated shipping box? Why wouldn't you use a cold pack. We are talking about things that cost $1-2 here. I'm sure that an importer of that scale must get fish styros all the time. The ONLY reason to ship in a box that small is too be cheap and pay less for shipping. Weight is one factor with overnight shippers but so is dimensional weight. If the box is so large, it is a minimum price. So Ray saved $20 and killed an animal.

2) That really makes me mad that it is clear that he could care a less about there being a dead animal involved. It is just money right? The customer wanted this animal and is upset because it is dead. Admit you were a screw up and apologize.