Teaching the 'come to me' command?

Originally Posted by lucille

While he still does not come on command off leash, he no longer runs away but lets me come to him and is obviously enjoying the attention he is receiving.

That's HUGE. Good work, Lucille!

Lucille,
Taking in a stray is an admirable act.
I'm just going to add an observation based on what I have read about this dog's behavior, as you have related it, thus far. Perhaps I am obstructing the dominant philosophical flow by doing so. But, I feel that having varied points of view are always more useful than having just a few.

This is what I think. The dog doesn't come to you because he doesn't yet accept you as the alpha, as the leader, or as being superior over him. He is still not acquiescing to you as the authority.

Also, subordinates approach the leader. The leader never approaches the subordinates. As long as you continue to "go to him" you re-enforce his position as superior to you. One of the things that is so human, yet doesn't translate well to dogs is the belief that affection, crooning and reassurance are seen the same way by dogs as it is by humans. It is not. Humans are reassured and inclined to build trust in a person who is affectionate and kind. Dogs interpret this behavior as weakness. To a dog it is supplication rather than power.

This method works well with insecure, fearful dogs. With dominant dogs it does the opposite.

If this were me, I would withhold affection from this dog giving it only after the dog did a behavior I wanted. Use affection as a reward, rather than food. It actually gives you more power and authority than a food treat does. Please don't misunderstand. Food treats definitely have their place. They just don't offer the same re-enforcing umph or bonding depth with dominant dogs as affection does.

Dogs do not live in democracies. They evolved to function in dictatorships. Dogs require a strong leader. Otherwise, a dog with a dominant temperament is going to assume this position for itself--as it would in any all dog group.

Never give a command that you can't enforce. If you can not enforce a command after you give it, it loses all meaning to the dog. Keep him on a leash when outside so that you can enforce your wish that he come to you, or follow you inside. You said that you have decided to do this. I think you are correct in thinking this.

All of this is my humble opinion. It is based on what my education, experience and personality proclivities have proven successful for me.

My son's dog is a looney tune, hyper idiot. She is four years old now and not showing any signs of calming down any time soon. Every interaction with her requires a different behavior on my part than it does for my dog--who is calm, well mannered and obedient even off leash. They are, each one, different. Each one has something different to teach. Ain't that one of the reasons we love and cherish them?

I agree with alot of what Marjee said. I just wanted to add that affection has always played a huge part in training. My dogs have definitely responded better to that than any other reward. But there are also levels of rewards. If your dog is food oriented it helps, mine aren't. Anyway, real meat, like a small chunk of cooked hot dog or cold cuts are a great way of saying that what they did is the best thing ever. Always keep the pieces small and nearby because you never know when they will do something wonderful. This worked great for getting my dog to clean the house. Now if only he weren't afraid of the vacuum cleaner....

What do you mean, "get the dog to clean the house"? Your dog actually does housework?
Mine will lick up spills and clean dishes.
They both CREATE housework--but do housework?.

You bet he does housework! Basically if it is not a dog toy, he will pick it up. If I drop something and am too lazy to pick it up, he does so gladly. If a leaf falls off a plant, he will pick it up. Once we were playing fetch in the house, I know a big no-no. I knocked something over when I threw the toy, he got the toy, brought it to me, then immediately turned around and picked up what was knocked over. We used to get mail through the door in the apartment, he would bring me all the mail. If I try for a basket with the garbage can and miss, he gets the rebound. Also if I missed a tumbleweed of his hair, which is EVERYWHERE, he will pick it up also. I would teach him to get me a soda from the fridge, but I am afraid if he opens the fridge his Shiba Inu in crime will raid the fridge when I am not looking. So as is, I just get him to bring me sodas if someone else is in the kitchen and hands it to him. He'll bring me the remote and he finds my dragons when the cat sets them loose, but he won't pick them up. He'll clean the dishes, but wouldn't any dog! But he will only clean them if there is no food on it unless instructed he may do so. I could leave a fat juicy T-bone steak at his level and he won't touch it. And if I offer him a plateful of food or treats and tell him to take ONE, he only takes one, even though there are many. And some days I think he is telepathic and brings me what I am thinking of. But that's gotta be just coincidence.

Originally Posted by coyote

This is what I think. The dog doesn't come to you because he doesn't yet accept you as the alpha, as the leader, or as being superior over him. He is still not acquiescing to you as the authority.

You may be right, and I have heard this theory. I am sure y'all know that as well as posting here I am researching everywhere to try to give the best possible home.

He will come as far as the porch but will not come in, and because he is doing this much I have let him go into the back yard unleashed again. I do not know whether he was not permitted in the house wherever he used to live or simply beaten for whatever, as he did cower and cringe at first both for me and the original finder when we first tried to pet him.

Once he is in, he follows me if I go to another room.

I might be dead wrong but intuitively I think giving lots of affection at this introductory stage, to show him he is not going to be abused or hit, is the right thing to do. Plus, it is part of my nature to do so.

What do y'all think?

Not meeting the dog, I would completely agree with you, Lucille. From the response he is giving you, it doesn't appear to me that he has issues of dominance, it's more just plain ol fear.

The first time we tried to bring our "yard dog", Sally, into the house because of a bad storm, it literally took 2 of us to get her inside. She had been badly abused before we got her, and for a long time would not even get within 20 fet of the door, or if she did, she would cower and run if one of us stepped toward her. After lots of reassurance and affection, she has slowly become a part-time yard dog, and a most-of-the-time house dog, lol.

Not knowing Elroy's history makes it a bit harder to know just how to play it, but after working with many abused dogs over the years, he certainly seems to fit their "profile" from my experience.

Cat,

I do want to teach Elroy a bunch of stuff like sit/stay, but want him to be comfy first. The other dogs I've had (except for the disobedient although pint sized Muffin) have learned quickly through treats and praise. How long did you have Sally before she got used to you and you started teaching her stuff?