Reasonable length of time for a warranty period?

That is very good logic Daniel.

And Brian, my example was a LITTLE extreme(not quite ready for the $1000 chondros yet myself ), but I will still hold to it. Personally, I would rather spend more money on ONE and not lose any than buy 3 and lose one. There's something about animals dying that doesn't appeal to me And also, I typically don't get chondros at shows unless it is from someone I have absolute faith in(like Eugene). However, I will look around objectively at all the chondros at a show and I WILL search out the best deal. But for me, the best deal isn't necessarily the cheapest anymore. The best deal to me is the one that I walk away feeling fully satisfied and comfortable with. If I buy three cheap chondros for a grand from my good buddy Jimmy JohnJohn whom I've never heard of but that had decent looking snakes, but no real customer service, I am not going to feel all that comfortable with my purchase. However, if I buy that one $1000 snake from Eugene, I KNOW I'll get great service with my purchase both before and after the sale and I also know that there is a long string of satisfied customers BEFORE me.

I think it all just goes back to, "you get what you pay for." And to me, I'd rather pay for ONE quality animal from someone I feel I can trust than buy three from good ol' Jimmy JohnJohn noone's seen before.

It's strange, I'm like you about anything else I buy, other than reptiles. When it comes to reptiles I like to "spred it around so to speak." And there are only two people/slash companies I would not buy from again. The company is a rather large one, the reason is because I bought 3 rather overpriced corns from them. And the all were loaded with parasites. Now the parasites weren't the problem, I had the ability and the knowhow to deal w/ those. In fact, they even told me they had just traded for the snakes. What ticked me off was the fact that when I called them and told them about the parasites, they wouldn't even return my call. I didn't want anything from them, I just wanted to let them know what they needed to treat the snakes for/with before they sold anymore to anyone else.

For me it all depends on the type of reptile, and where and how it is purchased.

For those purchased on-line, by phone, or in person; I offer a 7 day guarantee for snakes, and a 3 day guarantee for lizards. I also request that the purchaser notify me either by e-mail or telephone as soon as they recieve the animal as I will only honor DOA - refunds/replacements when notified at time of delivery! (Thank goodness these incidents are few and far between...but it happens).

For those who purchase animals at reptile shows; I offer a "time-of-purchase" guarantee only. Too often I have encountered folks who purchase an animal, then leave it on the seat of the car in the blazing heat just to have the animal perish before making it home...or succumbing to being overheated a day or two afterwords.

All-in-all the 7-day guarantee seems to work well for both parties.

i would say a 7 day guarantee. depends on what your selling though..

the reason i say this i was reading a message board one day about bearded dragons and one girl was asking questions aobut her sick BD. she claimed she was feeding it lettuce and spinach only, she also didnt have uvb lighting. it was only 2 months old and diagnosed with MBD by a vet (after having to convince her into taking it one). i would assume she only had it a month if it was 2 months old.

there are alot of people who think their whacked idea of reptile care is far better than most caresheets given and ignore normal care procedures. the people who believe heatrocks are far better than a proper basking spot. the ones who think calci-sand is so safe they encourage their reps to eat it. they all think its ok to do it and will continue, cause a few sruvived before.

7 days would be the longest i would let it go and only then the gurantee would have certain things that would void it. like if they mixed the reptile with their reptiles, improper husbandry and other things would affect my decision to refund someone money or replace it. if im contacted within 24-48 hours after arrival and they are having problems then i may extend it.

if the animal is sick or dead i would expect them to take to a vet to find out why. i would even offer them to give my number to the vet or give me the vets number so i can contact them personally. if they claim they can't pay or claim they dont have a reptile vet in the area then i would say "sorry, but your s.o.l.".

i believe if they are going to own herps they should have a number and know where a herp vet is first. if they dont know where a herp vet is, then it shows that they never had intention to take care of it in the first place. i would also not want them to send me back a dead or dying reptile so i could pay their bill to find out why, when i know it left in perfect health.

Since I am only currently a buyer and not a seller. I'll offer my 2 cents from my perspective.

PEOPLE get stresed from traveling etc when they aren't in decent conditions. I don't expect an animal to arrive perfect at all. To me its how they turn our in the next several days that tells the story. There are risks, as a buyer, that I take when I have live animals shipped to me vs. picking them up.

I would go for up to a 3 Day guarantee. To me this allows the animal have had some stress escape without the purchaser too much time to treat teh animal wrong if they have no clue.

But a bigger part is as a buyer, having common sense. Seller's error or fault = refund/replacement. My fault=reorder another? I'm sure a bunch of peeps out there kill their animal and turn it around on the seller.

I would have a set guarantee but there would be exceptions where it could be me, if I was the seller, fault. Sometimes its a non breeding average joe who might have a clue and the seller doesn't.

Speaking of that, is there a licensing or organization that accredits breeders? Just curious if there is someone who gives a thumbs up to different breeders/dealers?

A couple thoughts on this thread as I relate it to my personal business practices. These days I sell almost exclusively cb animals that I produce here, but occasionaly I get in shipments of wc animals for pet shops that I supply because even though they know it isn't really what I do they want to get all the animals from me and not deal with a junk only dealer to get say, baby uromastyx. So invariably I have to buy many more of the animals to both make shipping worth while and to get a better price on the animals. So I may buy 100 uros and I will only be selling 20 to a couple stores. So I have 80 uros left. At this point I have 2 directions to go. 1) I put them on the table at a show, labeling them as fresh imports, allowing people top have as much time as they like to pick out their choice, and offer no guarantee. 2) sit on the anmials for a few months, feed and care for them well and sell them fully backed as I would my own production. The difference? The first option is a $20 animal. The second option is a $50-100 animal. I tend to sell them in about equal quantities to people who understand the equation. Cheap=high risk. Expensive=no risk. We all make these descisons every day. Do you eat at McDonalds or at a nice restaurant? Do we buy name brand product or cheap knock-off? New car or used car? It is always a risk analysis.

Insurance companies have it down to a science. They take millions of stats and boil them down to base equations. And then they hedge their bets. For all the years of premiums that the vast majority of their customers pay, even when they file a claim, the insurance company will come out ahead. Some people who drive poorly, have poor health, etc, will break the average and the insurer will lose their butt covering them, but the other 99% of the people insured who make up the curve in the first place more than cover that one loss and insurance companies profit in the billions every year.

With animals that I produce or that I have from a top notch breeder that I have confidence in, I am very cool about selling them and handling any problem that comes up. Things happen from time to time that are just out of your control. These are living things after all. You can have perfectly healthy looking animals that eat well and look great that can just drop dead from a birth defect or bacterial infection that you had know way of knowing they had. Some virul pathogens in herps incubate in the animals body for years with no symptoms whatsoever and then overnight become a train wreck. Sometimes there is just no way to know. So that is the test. When the crap hits the fan does the seller acknowledge the problem and resolve it? I think that is the important factor. Poor husbandry is usually easy to establish as the cause for a customers lack of success with an animal just by talking to them.

Cheap=high risk. Expensive=no risk.

Evan,

We are in partial agreement. My equation though is slightly different...

Cheap=high risk. Expensive=lower risk.

When you pay less you may have a good deal if you buy a discontinued model of a recognized brand product or, in our field, and animal from a recognized breeder at a discounted price. The “discounted” price in this last instance has probably nothing to do with the health or quality of the animal. Breeders that are on the cutting edge of production and marketing know when they have to start dumping certain “stocks”. Something else is in the horizon and they know that they better sell that “morph” now at a discount than in a few months at clearance prices.

On the other side of the equation I’m also of the “school of thought” that higher priced usually equates with higher quality. But this is not an absolute truth. Unscrupulous sellers use this mentality to lure precisely those that think similarly into buying something. If you are offered a convertible 2004 BMW with 10,000 miles on it for $5,000 you immediately know there is something wrong with it. Now if the price tag is set at $45,000 you may buy it. The same holds true for a given heterozygous snake for a certain trait. If the price is set at 1/3 the market price you don’t even bother asking. If the price is set at 80% of the current market price you might give them a call. Just perception a matter of perception…

I was at a show one day at the Reptile Industries table and was talking to Mark Bell and he had a great thought. Pay his retail asking price for an animal and he will back it 100% and take care of that customer above and beyond. Bargain him down on his price and he will sell it to you "as is" never wanting that phone call if you have issues down the road. That really summed the whole thing up for me. I think if somebody wants the full package, top notch treatment, like in any other business they should be willing to pay a reasonable price for that. If they must have the absolute best, bottom dollar price tag they should have some risk to assume.

Dan, I just realized you dug up this thread from eight years ago! Get out of the house man! Take the dog for a walk, go see a movie, get the heck away from the computer!