Inbreeding taking a toll on albinos?

I saw that ad the other day and was bothered by the fact that they were being sold as a 1.1 pair giving the impression that the buyer could breed them in the future and possibly continue this trait/deformity with clutches where BOTH parents are missing eyes.
I do not personally belive that the one eyed albinos and hets should be bred at all because of the possibility of continuing this trait (if it could be passed).
Maybe sell them at a serious discount seperatly as pets but not a pair of them with the impression that they should be bred to eachother.

Does anyone else think that they should not be bred at all?
OR
Do you think that if they are bred to unrelated snakes, the deformity will go away?

Does anyone else think that they should not be bred at all?

They should not be bred, no doubt about it. The fact is that this "breeder" has at least two animals from his litter showing the anomaly is a clear indication that his breeders carry the genetic deffect.

He is selling the pair for at least $1,000. It might seem a good deal but it is definitely not. He is "cleaning" his stock by selling them at a discount price in Reptibid. The problem is that once he sells all the defective individuals the rest of his animals will look flawless, and they will be priced as such.

Do you think that if they are bred to unrelated snakes, the deformity will go away?

Eventually. But who knows how many years of breeding it might take before you reach to that point.

Related to this, would it be safer to buy albinos born to a pair of double hetero for sunglows than from a pair of straight albinos? My thought behind it is that an albino was bred to a salmon/hypo to produce the DH. That in itself is outbreeding.

Regards.

Originally posted by alvaro
Related to this, would it be safer to buy albinos born to a pair of double hetero for sunglows than from a pair of straight albinos? My thought behind it is that an albino was bred to a salmon/hypo to produce the DH. That in itself is outbreeding.

I would think that would be the same as buying an albino that was bred from a pair of hets. There is a discussion on RTB similar to this that it was stated that most breeders do not breed albino x albino because of the problems that are encountered with the clutch versus albino x het or het x het.

Originally from RTB forum posted by Clay English
Well I think the truth of the matter is that albino to albino breedings are just not all that successful. I think there are just more inherit problems with the albino to albino pairings. I have produced albinos, but only from het breedings, but I know several who have definately produced more albinos from het pairings (ie albino to het or het to het) than with albino to albino pairings.

And it is true that most of the deformities are from albino to albino breedings or from multiple line inbreedings... Although I do NOT believe the oneeye/no eye baby traits are "passed" as in genetically, from one-eyed adults to the babies.. I just think the weak gene to weak gene pool breedings produce these.

I think that it is more simply the fact that in normal boas that carry the amelanistic recessive gene (heterozygous), we have solid, strong genetic boas that just have a "recessive" gene... so the het breedings tend to produce healthier litters, healthier albinos.. whereas in albinos the "weak" gene is now evident in the parent, so now the pairing is weaker genetically already.. Could be the reason a lot of albino to albino litters are all slugs, mostly slugs, or produce deformed babies...

Interesting to me for sure and I am sure there is a ton of scientific information on amelanism and it could be explained much better, but I based this post on talking with Jeff Ronne and Pete Kahl..

I will breed albino to het for sure... Will I ever try albino to albino? I don't think so... I would much rather go with albino to hypo or albino to pastel.. That's just me though

Originally posted by JJFOUTZ
I would think that would be the same as buying an albino that was bred from a pair of hets.

I should have said that it would be the same as buying an albino that was bred from UNRELATED hets.

has told me





From : Jeff Ronne/The Boaphile <The_Boaphile@theboaphile.com>
Sent : Monday, August 23, 2004 7:52 PM
To : "'jahaira haney'" <haney0831@msn.com>
CC : "'Joel R DuBay Sr'" <sales@boaphileplastics.com>
Subject : RE: pastels

| | | Inbox


I have written a detailed explanation about Pastels you can feel free to
read if you like. It is really long and detailed but will answer all of
your questions and more:

http://www.theboaforum.com/cgi-bin/y...ics1;action=di
splay;num=1050880714

Albinos are prone to these infections that cause the eye problems but I
would not say it is genetic. I have had babies with the bad eyes but
treat them with a very small amount of Antibiotic which seems to work
most of the time.

Thank you,

Jeff

-----Original Message-----



im not arguing with anyone just stating what i was told and do not want a pi**ing match because i will not participate just trying to post some new info to me

Originally posted by JJFOUTZ


Do you think that if they are bred to unrelated snakes, the deformity will go away?

If it's genetic, no. First, you cannot find an unrelated Kahl strain albino, they are all bred down from the founding male. If that male carried the gene for the deformity, all albinos would be possible carriers for the gene. If you breed a snake with the deformity, what you will produce will be hets for the deformity, essentially. (Not all deformities are simple recessives, but plenty are, and it seems to be the case with the one eyed albinos.) So, it won't go away. Those "hets" will always stand a chance to hit against another "het" for one-eyed. Further back in this thread, I mentioned one method used by livestock breeders to see if an animal is free of a genetic defect: line breed back to the animal for at least nine generations. I don't see that happening with boas to prove a snake free of the gene, as it'd take far too much time. On the other hand, if the gene was present, it'd probably pop up a lot sooner than nine generations of linebreeding. (Or back breeding? Forgot the term for exactly that kind of inbreeding.)

Anyway, the best you can hope for if there is a gene for one-eyed snakes in the albino bloodlines is to reduce the number of hets for it by out crossing. They will still crop up, though. Ideally, snakes found to produce the one eyed defect shoudl be retired from breeding and removed from the captive gene pool, but I don't think enough breeders are responsible in the matter to do so when they can sell the non-defective offspring for a high profit.

Albinos are prone to these infections that cause the eye problems but I
would not say it is genetic. I have had babies with the bad eyes but
treat them with a very small amount of Antibiotic which seems to work
most of the time.

Daniel,

It could also very well be the other way around, that is the eye problems (which debilitate the cornea and other tissues) could end up in infections.

Thanks

Part two of the following link describes several of the eye problems seen in albino boas. It starts with the following statements:

2. Albinism

Albinism is one of the most common forms of inherited visual impairment. A wide spectrum of genetic variants exist, many of which have associated metabolic or central nervous system anomalies, most commonly hearing impairment.

Anatomically, albinos exhibit excess decussation of optic nerve fibers at the chiasm with temporal retinal fibers that normally remain ipsilateral crossing to the contralateral geniculate body. This anomalous wiring limits binocularity as well as accuracy of fixation and pursuits.(5)

It is characterized by varying degrees of amelanosis due to a deficiency of the enzyme tyrosinase.

Ocular complications - Level of visual impairment is dependent on the degree of severity of these five factors:
Amelanosis of the iris and retina
Nystagmus
Foveal hypoplasia
Strabismus and impaired binocular vision
Astigmatism

Classification of Albinism:

Albinism occurs in two primary types, oculocutaneous and ocular. There are many genetic variants of oculocutaneous albinism in which both skin and eyes are affected. Most of of these variants are inherited in an autosomal recessive pattern.(5) However, the most useful division of oculocutaneous albinism for the eye care practitioner is based on the expression of the gene for the enzyme tyrosine because the degree of ocular involvement is tied to the deficiency of tyrosine and corresponding amelanosis.

Oculocutaneous Albinism:
1. Tyrosinase-Negative
The most severe form in which there is complete absence of pigment. Foveal light reflex is absent (complete foveal hypoplasia).
Nystagmus is moderate to severe.
Acuity is usually 20/200 or less.

2. Tyrosinase-Positive
Characterized by varying degrees of amelanosis.
Foveal hypoplasia and nystagmus is not as severe as T-Negative.
Acuity is usually better than 20/200.



Anterior segment presentation of a young black with oculocutaneous albinism



Fundus of the same patient.

Ocular Albinism:

X-linked recessive inheritance

Affected males have normal skin and hair pigment but show varying degrees of ocular depigmentation.

Visual acuity lies in the 20/40 to 20/100 range. (Correlates with the amount of pigment and nystagmus.)

Mother's eyes are affected. (Subclinical presentation.)

Some presentations of ocular albinism, especially in darkly pigmented individuals, can be easily missed because there is no iris transillumination and the fundus appears nearly normal. Slightly reduced acuity and mild nystagmus may be the only observable signs.

In my opinion this puts an end to a lot of the speculation about if it's genetic or not. It is and it's inherited as a recessive characteristic associated with the "X" chromosome.

http://www.opt.pacificu.edu/ce/catal...rmentPeds.html

Regards