Heterozygous traits, how much would you pay for 100% reassurance?

Well, I don't know exactly what you're saying would be done, but I know in dogs, it's quite simple to get a DNA test to prove paternity, costs about $35 to get it done. If you're talking testing for the actual gene that makes the animal het for whatever trait...now that could take some doing.

Cathy and Others,
Since the issue of paternity has been raised as a possible avenue to explore, and you mention that it only costs $35 to do it in dogs, I have to assume that that form of paternal proof is not based on DNA identificaton. My belief is that a DNA analysis cannot be had for less than $600, but I am not very knowledgable there. And that would be just for a comparative DNA analysis, such as establishing kinship, not the identification of a specific gene or two, if we had any idea what we were looking for. If anyone has a little more solid info on some of the costs for different procedures and tests at this point in time, whether for dogs, humans, reptiles, etc, please share it if you have a moment. Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Chameleon Company

Cathy and Others,
Since the issue of paternity has been raised as a possible avenue to explore, and you mention that it only costs $35 to do it in dogs, I have to assume that that form of paternal proof is not based on DNA identificaton. My belief is that a DNA analysis cannot be had for less than $600, but I am not very knowledgable there. And that would be just for a comparative DNA analysis, such as establishing kinship, not the identification of a specific gene or two, if we had any idea what we were looking for. If anyone has a little more solid info on some of the costs for different procedures and tests at this point in time, whether for dogs, humans, reptiles, etc, please share it if you have a moment. Thanks in advance.

Well, you take a swab from the inside of the male dogs' mouth, send it in, and the AKC has a "profile" made, and they charge you $35 (or right in that ballpark) to do it, and they call it DNA testing. Maybe I'm just dumb as a box of rocks, but that's what made me assume it was based on DNA identification.

Is this "solid" enough info?

http://www.akc.org/dna/index.cfm

DNA and the AKC
Making the Science Work for You

The AKC offers a comprehensive set of voluntary and mandatory programs to ensure the integrity of the AKC registry: voluntary DNA Profiling; the Frequently Used Sires requirement; the Fresh-Extended/Frozen Semen requirement; the Multiple-Sired Litter Registration Policy; and the Kennel Inspections/Compliance Audit Program. The AKC has built the world's largest database of canine DNA profiles for parentage verification and genetic identity purposes.

The Science Behind AKC DNA Profiles

AKC DNA Profiles are generated using the same technology used by law enforcement agencies throughout the world. How does this work? In humans and dogs alike, each gene is present as two copies (displayed as letters). Offspring receive one copy of each gene from each parent in a random process.

This technology does not use actual genes, but other DNA sequences that are also inherited one copy from each parent. For this reason, your dog's AKC DNA Profile does not provide any information about the conformation of the dog or the presence/absence of genetic diseases. Furthermore, AKC DNA Profiles cannot determine the breed of a dog.

Voluntary DNA Profile

This voluntary program has resulted from significant input from the fancy. The DNA Profile Program is for owners and breeders electing to add value to their breeding programs by eliminating concerns or questions about identification and parentage.

A dog owner may contact AKC for a DNA Test Kit which includes a swab that the owner uses to collect loose cells from inside the dog's cheek. An AKC DNA Profile containing the dog's registration information, genotype, and a unique DNA Profile number is issued for each dog sampled. This DNA Profile number will appear on subsequently issued Registration Certificates and Pedigrees.

DNA Requirements

AKC DNA Profiling is required for: Frequently Used Sires (dogs having the greatest impact on the AKC Stud Book); imported breeding stock; dogs whose semen is collected for fresh-extended or frozen use; and for the sires, dam and puppies for Multiple-Sired Litter Registration.

Kennel Inspections/Compliance Audit Program

AKC Representatives take DNA samples at randomly selected kennels to verify identification and parentage of litters. AKC litter registration and privileges will be withdrawn when the parentage of the litters is determined to be incorrect. The dogs sampled through the Compliance Audit Program are not considered AKC DNA Profiled, and DNA Profiles are not issued.

The AKC DNA Database and Parentage Verification

Comparison of the DNA profiles of a dam, sire, and pup(s) will determine, with greater than 99% confidence, whether the pups are from the tested dam and sire. The AKC DNA database examines the parentage of all AKC DNA Profiled registered dogs and litters whelped on or after January 1, 2000. When problems are discovered, the DNA staff works with breeders to determine correct parentage at the breeder's expense.

AKC Parentage Evaluation Service

For a fee, an AKC DNA Analyst will issue a Parentage Evaluation of a litter in the form of an easy to read table listing each dog's genotype and a written report.

Parentage Evaluation can be used to ensure accuracy when breeding has been done offsite, for cases of artificial insemination, or to add to extra measure of confidence to your pedigrees.

AKC Parentage Profile

For AKC registered dogs born on/after January 1, 2000, dog owners may purchase a handsome profile displaying the registration information and genotypes for the dog and its AKC registered sire and dam. All three dogs must be AKC DNA Profiled to purchase this profile.

Wow Cathy, great piece of research. I had no idea the AKC did all that, and I can see where it would come in handy.

Cathy,
Thanks for hunting up the info. I guess it all comes down to degree of accuracy. While that test claims a 99% degree of accuracy, and would be acceptable to probably 99% of all, my confusion probably stems from the testing that takes it out to about a 99.9999% degree of accuracy, which is more than most would ever have need of except in certain legal situations where much more was at stake. Thanks !

Bingo Cathy!

Regards

I think that genetic testing would be handy, as long as it can determine the actual genotype at specific loci. The biggest value in that would be eliminating possible hets, which especially would greatly accelerate the production of new genetic combinations. Establishing paternity, etc, would not be very useful IMO.

This would still need to be done by the purchaser, since (as I think was mentioned) there's no way to guarantee that the seller didn't just send in a bunch of samples from one individual and say "these are from all these different animals."

The biggest hurdle would be the up-front expense of the original effort to map out the loci in question. And each time a new gene is discovered, this expense would need to be paid out by the business providing that service, in order to map out the new locus, or determine if it's an allele at a previously known locus. You would also likely need samples from a decent number of specimens of already-known genotypes in order to find those loci, too, so testing for a new gene might not be possible until there are already several of them in existence (and two generations have been produced) and the price has already dropped quite a bit.

As for cost, it really depends... I don't work with the high priced stuff, only cornsnakes. But I think I might be willing to pay $50-100 to determine the actual genotypes of certain cornsnakes.

If you, as a purchaser, can prove for $50 that the baby het you have purchased is indeed sired by a particular father, how would that not be helpful? It could mean the difference between a $25 normal snake and a $1000 het.

I think it would be particularly helpful for folks like me just getting a start in the world of high-dollar snakes, there seems to be so much apprehension about buying from "new, unheard of" breeders.....if I can offer genetic proof that my babies are indeed what I say they are, it will help me to GET established as one of those folks that people will buy hets from with confidence.