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FaunaClassifieds Site HELP & Feedback Forum Anything of a nature concerning this website, moderators, admin, or anything having to do with how it is being run, should go here. Criticism is welcome, but abusive antagonism is not. THIS IS NOT THE FORUM FOR FEEDBACK CONCERNING BUYERS AND SELLERS! THE BOI IS SOLELY FOR THAT PURPOSE.

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Old 08-22-2014, 01:21 PM   #1
WebSlave
Exclamation Bogus PayPal claims

So today I get another member claiming with PayPal that I have made an unauthorized charge to their PayPal account. Apparently some people forget that they set up an automated subscription payment plan with PayPal when they set up a paid membership or sponsorship within this site. Rather than contact me about it, they go ahead and file a claim with PayPal. Or perhaps it is just being done maliciously by someone who got a bug up their butt about this site over something.

But in any event, I'm tired of having to take my time to try to resolve someone else's mistake or rebut their malicious claim.

I'm not sure whether this puts black marks on my name with PayPal, but I am going to assume that it could be. Being the fair guy that I am, I guess it is fair play that I return the favor and post a BAD GUY thread about people engaging in this practice in the Board Of Inquiry. Oh, I will try to contact the "offender" first to see if this can be resolved reasonably, but if the past is going to be any guide, most won't have the balls to even reply to me. In which case, I feel that they fully deserve to be exposed for their attempts to defraud and libel me with their bogus claim to PayPal.
 
Old 08-22-2014, 03:33 PM   #2
Fangthane
Quote:
Originally Posted by WebSlave View Post
Apparently some people forget that they set up an automated subscription payment plan with PayPal when they set up a paid membership or sponsorship within this site...

...malicious claim.

...I guess it is fair play that I return the favor and post a BAD GUY thread about people engaging in this practice in the Board Of Inquiry.
Never underestimate the degree to which a startling amount of people are absolutely flummoxed and mystified by the 'magic internet box' that they have sitting at their computer desk. Without knowing any details, it's entirely likely that the PP dispute is simply a product of total ignorance; while their subsequent silence is a product of the shame that should be felt when said ignorance is exposed. Frankly, I'm amazed that some people can even manage to turn their PC on. Of course, malice is just as likely. Being a firm believer in the idea that stupidity should be punished, I probably wouldn't argue against a BOI thread for the former as well as the latter. Some people just need the sense forcibly knocked into them.
 
Old 08-22-2014, 04:17 PM   #3
WebSlave
If someone makes a mistake, all they need to do is to contact me directly. I'll take care of it. I CAN'T take money from anyone's PayPal account. The buyer HAS to set that up for automated subscriptions to take place. It's not like having someone's credit card info and just running a card without authorization.

So when someone accuses me of an illegal act, yeah, it's not going to sit very well with me.

And PayPal is absolutely useless. Every time I contact them via email about this issue, they just send me a canned message. Just like when you start the "resolution" process where they say to continue on to the next page to provide more information to "Resolve claim now" for them so that they can investigate the claim, and your only choices are:
  1. Provide Shipping Information.
  2. I have not shipped the item and I will refund the payment.
  3. I have refunded the payment for this transaction.

Of course I can't provide a tracking number, since there is no such thing in this case, so the next options pretty much say I HAVE to admit guilt of an unauthorized transaction. Not going to happen. I'm not the bad guy in this.
 
Old 08-22-2014, 04:30 PM   #4
Lucille
Not that you have to nanny people, you don't, but how costly would it be to set up an automated reminder to people that the Paypal debit they arranged and agreed to is coming up? Like the reminder you send that our annual subscriptions are about to expire?
You might weigh the headaches of setting up such a system against the headaches of coping with these people that make the claims of unauthorized charge, and see which gives you less pain.
 
Old 08-22-2014, 05:06 PM   #5
hhmoore
I suspect that some of the people don't even know that they are setting up a recurring subscription. When looking at the subsription page, the Contributing level membership is the second option listed....when clicking on price, one is presented two options: 1 yr $25 and 1 yr* $25. (attachment 1)
There is no obvious notation that the 1 yr* is a recurring subscription, unless/until one scrolls past the next 70 (or so) options; where, at the bottom of the page, it states: Validity periods marked * indicate that purchasing this subscription is recurring, this means after the period is complete it will automatically be renewed. (attachment 2) Relatively few people read the large bold print when it is put someplace obvious...I'd bet that hardly anybody scrolls past all the forum sponsorships to see that message.

It might be helpful to move that statement up to the top of the page, or to insert a step requiring them to agree to the recurrent subscription.

(images below enlarged for ease of viewing)
Attached Images
  
 
Old 08-22-2014, 07:29 PM   #6
WebSlave
Sorry, but I have no intention to make the effort of rubber baby buggy bumpering this site for people. Nor do I have any desire to try to reduce every function on this site to an extremely low common denominator. This is how vBulletin's developers wrote the code, and I presume they made allowances for some level of low common denominator in their design.

If someone doesn't understand something, ask. If there is a problem, ask.

But to automatically accuse me of illegal behavior? Seriously? Like I'm going to intentionally STEAL someone's money from them? I don't think they make an intellectual common denominator THAT low.
 
Old 08-22-2014, 07:51 PM   #7
WebSlave
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhmoore View Post
I suspect that some of the people don't even know that they are setting up a recurring subscription. When looking at the subsription page, the Contributing level membership is the second option listed....when clicking on price, one is presented two options: 1 yr $25 and 1 yr* $25. (attachment 1)
There is no obvious notation that the 1 yr* is a recurring subscription, unless/until one scrolls past the next 70 (or so) options; where, at the bottom of the page, it states: Validity periods marked * indicate that purchasing this subscription is recurring, this means after the period is complete it will automatically be renewed. (attachment 2) Relatively few people read the large bold print when it is put someplace obvious...I'd bet that hardly anybody scrolls past all the forum sponsorships to see that message.

It might be helpful to move that statement up to the top of the page, or to insert a step requiring them to agree to the recurrent subscription.

(images below enlarged for ease of viewing)

Point taken.....

As such, I have removed ALL instances of recurring payments for all sponsorships and paid memberships. I had several people ask for this to take the burden off of them having to remember to renew, especially in the forums that have been typically sold out and they would run the risk of losing their slot merely by an oversight on their part. I guess they are just going to have to deal with it.

Of course, this does nothing about those people with currently existing automated subscriptions. But maybe PayPal has a way to globally delete ALL incoming subscriptions so I can just can all of them with one fell swoop.

Sorry, I think I've just had my fill of people lately.............
 
Old 08-22-2014, 08:10 PM   #8
Fangthane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webslave
rubber baby buggy bumpering
This isn't exactly rocket surgery. Just a minimal amount of effort and attention to detail is all that's really required to understand and successfully navigate through the various options. As much as I generally agree with trying to make things as painless as possible; you gotta draw a line somewhere.

Maybe I'm just particularly intolerant at the moment, but I'm pretty well fed-up with those who clearly just don't care enough to try. My own frustrations come from a very small handful of people with whom I've associated (until very recently); I can't even begin to imagine how you deal with the near-constant barrage of idiocy that you must have to contend with in the running of a site that has thousands of members. There were times when I've taken exception to how you've chosen to handle some things...but right now, I get it.
 
Old 08-22-2014, 08:27 PM   #9
hhmoore
I can understand your frustration, Rich - it doesn't matter how simple you try to make things, it's never simple enough. I don't remember when I finally figured out that the asterisk was for auto-renewal...but I know that the first couple of times I subscribed I clicked back and forth on the two options trying to figure out what the difference was. I don't think I figured it out until I was looking into a question somebody asked about their subscription renewal. That's why I suggested moving the explanation to the top, rather than the bottom.

Quote:
Maybe I'm just particularly intolerant at the moment
I've had a lot of that, recently, myself.
 

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