Josh of OUTBACK REPTILES

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

Why has no one asked him to supply the third party's name? It is against BOI rules to post information gotten from a third party without identifying said third party.

I had been avoiding looking at this thread, but she's right...it seems like the bulk of this thread is based on the word of an unidentified party. That doesn't fly here.
And, as long as we're on the subject of things that don't fly, it has been a long time since posting pics like that (Picard) was acceptable on the BOI (because they are generally disruptive and/or off topic in nature, as are the ensuing posts)

Originally Posted by Lucille

No. The snake has not been sold, it is simply not in the buyer's possession. If it had been left overnight at a vet office or if the owner had to leave the his snakes with a friend while he went out of town, he would not lose warranties.
As for the chain of evidence being broken, as long as the seller agrees it is the same snake, that is what counts.
The gender is not going to change by virtue of it going somewhere for a few days. This is not like a gun in a murder case. I don't think anyone would even suggest that a third party would tamper with this snake by transplanting junk onto it.

My point is this ... the owner has not had possession of the snake for at the minimum of 2 weeks, anything could have happened to this snake during this time. I agree that snakes don't magically change sex, but if I was the seller I wouldn't take the snake back, after it being in 2 different collections without proper quarantine procedures. That is just me though. Maybe a credit.

I am still waiting for the name of this third party. All evidence has come from him, so until he is identified I reserve my right to dismiss all evidence as hearsay, therefore suspect in my opinion.

I had an experience where I sold a very expensive snake to a breeder who has probably produced hundreds of thousands of snakes. We both sexed it as a male and away it went. Just about a year later he took it out to show someone, and just sexed it for the hell of it. It was a female. Didnt matter how much time had passed, or that he moved out of state, or maybe he had his hairdresser watch it for a week or two before she had her dogwalker watch it for a month. Anyway it was looked at, I sold a snake as a male and it was a female. He did not want a female even though she has some considerable size and I had to come up with just under $10,000 to buy this snake back. She just produced her second clutch here.

My point is that all of the little details about who had it, who sexed it, or this amount of time passed, etc... Is all pretty much bs IMO... If Josh agrees that is was the same snake, then the rest is irrelevant. If you sale a sexed snake wrong, that is your error, regardless of time. If you only guarantee the sex of the snake on arrival, then that should be stated in your TOS.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

My point is this ... the owner has not had possession of the snake for at the minimum of 2 weeks, anything could have happened to this snake during this time. I agree that snakes don't magically change sex, but if I was the seller I wouldn't take the snake back, after it being in 2 different collections without proper quarantine procedures. That is just me though. Maybe a credit.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying above. But it is substantially different from the quote below:

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

Once the snake changed hands, it would void any warranty or agreement in my opinion.

I'm sure whether or not it had travelled to a different collection, if the seller gets the critter back, it needs to be quarantined. You make a good point though, the more exposure, the more risk.

Originally Posted by Python Dreams

My point is that all of the little details about who had it, who sexed it, or this amount of time passed, etc... Is all pretty much bs IMO... If Josh agrees that is was the same snake, then the rest is irrelevant. If you sale a sexed snake wrong, that is your error, regardless of time. If you only guarantee the sex of the snake on arrival, then that should be stated in your TOS.

Exactly! If the seller did indeed make a mistake, it doesn't matter what gain the buyer coulda', woulda', shoulda' gotten out of it. If the seller didn't make the mistake in the first place, the buyer would not be in this position. If someone makes gain off of my mistake, it was still my mistake so it would actually make me feel a little better that my mistake didn't just cause problems for my buyer.

It really doesn't matter what proof is shown to any of us. If it is proven to Outback Reptiles that this is the same animal that was purchased as a female, but is actually a male, their not doing anything about it will look really bad to me, regardless of their TOS.

Originally Posted by Matt2979

Exactly! If the seller did indeed make a mistake, it doesn't matter what gain the buyer coulda', woulda', shoulda' gotten out of it. If the seller didn't make the mistake in the first place, the buyer would not be in this position. If someone makes gain off of my mistake, it was still my mistake so it would actually make me feel a little better that my mistake didn't just cause problems for my buyer.

It really doesn't matter what proof is shown to any of us. If it is proven to Outback Reptiles that this is the same animal that was purchased as a female, but is actually a male, their not doing anything about it will look really bad to me, regardless of their TOS.

Originally Posted by Lucille

I agree with a lot of what you are saying above. But it is substantially different from the quote below:



I'm sure whether or not it had travelled to a different collection, if the seller gets the critter back, it needs to be quarantined. You make a good point though, the more exposure, the more risk.

I re-read this

Once the snake changed hands, it would void any warranty or agreement in my opinion.

and I just didn't get what I was thinking into the proper words.

The snake was mis-sexed. The buyer deserves a refund. QT issues?.......C'mon, this is Outback. They have fresh imports, CH babies, established animals, etc all out on display right next to each other. In this case I think the QT aspect is a moot point.

Everyone seems to be missing my point.

All the information we have been given was supplied by a third party, which is against the rules ... especially since tithe third party has not been named.

I find it interesting that many BOI regulars have not called the OP out on it before now. So until this 3rd party is named, there is no evidence.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

Everyone seems to be missing my point.

All the information we have been given was supplied by a third party, which is against the rules ... especially since tithe third party has not been named.

I find it interesting that many BOI regulars have not called the OP out on it before now. So until this 3rd party is named, there is no evidence.

I agree completely. I also think that the evidence (picture) isn't very good to begin with in addition to being provided by an unknown 3rd party.