Josh of OUTBACK REPTILES

Originally Posted by wes smith

The OP stated he himself tried to breed this snake for 2 weeks prior to sending it to the friend.

He also said that he thought that his male might be the problem and then sent the snake to someone else without sexing it, even though he said he knows how to sex snakes.

Originally Posted by wes smith

All the information would include the OP's account of the situation too.

The problem is that the OP is using the photo to back up the his claims. He doesn't have the snake in his possession. He still has not sexed the snake himself. You can gather information from wherever you want, but to repeat it puts you in a position to have to prove it. He hasn't cited his source, other than to say he is a 25 year veteran snake keeper that didn't quarantine a snake before introducing it to his collection, didn't sex the snake prior to introducing it for breeding, and has provided the only visual evidence for this thread anonymously.

Originally Posted by wes smith

He has also supplied information in the form of e-mail transactions between he and the seller that shows he contacted the seller and got no resolution.

The seller does need to be in contact with the buyer regardless of what else is going off. This is why I will be looking elsewhere for snakes.

Originally Posted by wes smith

The only information that could be stated as from a third party would be the picture posted, but i don't think this is ALL of the information supplied in this thread.

It is the basis for all information presented though. The OP got a snake that he says was not in breeding condition and fed it good for a few weeks and tried to breed it. For all we know, the snake didn't breed because it wasn't in proper condition in spite of those few weeks. The OP didn't question the gender (or he would have sexed it) until seeing the picture.

Originally Posted by wes smith

The next time someone has an issue with Outback and does not get any resolution or response, then this thread will be here.

For that, I am thankful.

Originally Posted by wes smith

I also wanted to state that the picture in question would only serve Outback any good if they themselves keep photographic evidence of all the animals they sell.

The OP has given Outback reminders about the snake too. He mentioned that the snake would appear fatter than when they sent it (though I don't know how much a few weeks would help), but he also mentioned that it has a scar on the nose that they would remember. That pic doesn't show the snakes nose. That is a start. Posting a pic or video that is all inclusive might just make Outback say "Oh yeah... that IS the snake we sent, and it WAS sexed improperly!"

Originally Posted by wes smith

If that is the case, then shouldn't Outback be held to the same standard and requested that they (Outback) post their "proof" in the form of their photographic record?

If the OP proves his case, then Outback pays him and gets the snake back. They would be able to present their own photos if they feel they are still right, or chalk it up to a poorly sexed snake if they are at fault. The burden of proof is on the OP until Outback has the snake in their possession.

Originally Posted by endrin

If i were to hear from Ian instead of being told that he is again being emailed i will gladly do as he askes to prove it. The 3rd party is a friend, local breeder who you will not know.
Keys & Kritterz, I am on vacation during said swap times nor am i going to drive 2 hours each way on my day off plus gas&tolls to bring a snake to anyone because i should not have too. I would have gone for the send without refund until sexed but after this i dont think i would get anything back snake or money. 5 days past since i was told i was getting a call. If you ordered a TV and got a blender instead you ALL would want the mistake mad right, even tho its still a snake its as useful to me as the blender....... Now i will pursue other means to get this rectified.

Regardless whether we will know him or not, his name has to be provided. You have been asked bluntly by myself, a mod and other members to provide his name, yet you dance around the request like you are omit from the rules.

So, I am going to be the witch here and call BS on your whole story.

If I was the one with this issue, I would drive the 2hrs to retrieve the snake; so that i would be able to sex the snake myself and take proper pictures.

Regardless of the outcome, I think the lack of response from Outback is appallingly. No business should ignore any issue a customer has.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

Regardless whether we will know him or not, his name has to be provided. You have been asked bluntly by myself, a mod and other members to provide his name, yet you dance around the request like you are omit from the rules.

So, I am going to be the witch here and call BS on your whole story.

If I was the one with this issue, I would drive the 2hrs to retrieve the snake; so that i would be able to sex the snake myself and take proper pictures.

Regardless of the outcome, I think the lack of response from Outback is appallingly. No business should ignore any issue a customer has.

Agree on all points (not the "Witch" part).

I also want to add, that he doesn't even have to drive 2 hours, his breeding friend with the 25 years of experience probably has a camera (who doesn't with Cell phones these days?) and can take the identifying pictures, himself, and send them to his friend (fully identifying, with junk showing...not two different snakes in one picture).

Also, (to the OP) you had no problems posting that dubious picture (in one of the above posts) on here, why the sudden need to give a picture to Outback? Puteruphere!

Originally Posted by Johnny

For goodness sake it's a $150 sale on a thayeri that Outback prolly paid $50 to ship. I have known Ian before Outback and have dealt with Josh on/off when Ian is too busy. I can't count how many freakin' transactions I've had with them (maybe more than 100 deals?-both buying and selling). They buy and sell animals constantly and I'm sure someone accidentally miss sexed/miss represented the sex of this snake before they acquired it. The staff prolly didn't have time to resex the snake or forgot to. They have always been more than fair with me in ALL the deals I had with them. Just hold your horses and they'll resolve it. If you can make it to the White Plains show, it is prolly easiest for you to just bring the animal back to them, explain the situation, and this will be resolved. I am sure no one at Outback is trying to rip anyone off over an $150 thayeri deal.

I am as aware of Outback's reputation as anyone else, and I don't think the OP was trying to insinuate that this was an intentional ripoff. If I interpret correctly (and please, OP, do not let me speak for you if I am wrong) the main issue here is not so much that the snake turned out to be male, it is that Outback is doing nothing to deal with it.

That being said, I had a very similar situation with Josh in which a snake I had purchased was accidentally switched with another of lower quality (frankly, unsellable quality) and I had exactly the same problems in terms of getting Josh to do anything about it, and that was after he had admitted that the mistake was 100% on their end. Essentially, it took 3 months and dozens of emails and phone calls, many times during which I had to remind him who I was and what I was talking about.

I will say that they did eventually refund me half of my purchase price, which I agreed to as a fair compromise, but my complaint was the complete lack of customer service with regard to online purchasing, namely Josh. In fact, we had both agreed upon the compromise a full month before I actually got the refund.

My advice to the OP is to keep on them. Even going through my mixup, I never got the impression that anyone was intentionally trying to rip me off, just that they were severely lacking in customer service skills. Frustrating as it is, try to remind yourself that these guys deal with thousands of animals a year, that mistakes are bound to be made, and that they have a tremendous reputation throughout the industry, which is hard to find these days. Keep calling and emailing and I think someone will eventually someone will get around to doing the right thing. Personally, I don't think it's good enough to have to put up with the hassle, but what choice do you have?

If anyone at Outback is reading this post, I will say that I would highly recommend you develop a better procedure for handling customer complaints, as the OP's problem is extremely similar to mine, and despite your reputation and the fact that you eventually made good on my dissatisfaction, I still would think twice before ever dealing with you again. If Josh is overworked, get someone else to handle returns. I found the whole experience to be extremely unprofessional, as I'm sure the OP has as well.

Just to be clear, while I agree that there appears to be a communication problem with Outback, I think the situation may be out of Josh's control at this point. I believe he is an employee, not the owner, so even if Josh agrees that there was a problem he might not be able to resolve it without passing it up the chain of command.

From Josh's posts, it sounds like he had to pass the situation on to the owner, and he wasn't aware that the owner hadn't replied to the buyer.

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

Agree on all points (not the "Witch" part).

I also want to add, that he doesn't even have to drive 2 hours, his breeding friend with the 25 years of experience probably has a camera (who doesn't with Cell phones these days?) and can take the identifying pictures, himself, and send them to his friend (fully identifying, with junk showing...not two different snakes in one picture).

Also, (to the OP) you had no problems posting that dubious picture (in one of the above posts) on here, why the sudden need to give a picture to Outback? Puteruphere!

I am sure the friend has a camera. He must since he took the first picture.

Originally Posted by FireStorm

Just to be clear, while I agree that there appears to be a communication problem with Outback, I think the situation may be out of Josh's control at this point. I believe he is an employee, not the owner, so even if Josh agrees that there was a problem he might not be able to resolve it without passing it up the chain of command.

From Josh's posts, it sounds like he had to pass the situation on to the owner, and he wasn't aware that the owner hadn't replied to the buyer.

That might have worked for a day. But once he WAS aware, he and the owner should have worked to provide an answer. By now, it looks like more than an accidental delay.

It seems like both parties have a little to work on: the buyer is playing games with requests that he identify his third party, and the seller is not responding in a way that another buyer has now said was similar to the way he was treated.

Originally Posted by FireStorm

Just to be clear, while I agree that there appears to be a communication problem with Outback, I think the situation may be out of Josh's control at this point. I believe he is an employee, not the owner, so even if Josh agrees that there was a problem he might not be able to resolve it without passing it up the chain of command.

From Josh's posts, it sounds like he had to pass the situation on to the owner, and he wasn't aware that the owner hadn't replied to the buyer.

This was the excuse given to me upon many of my calls or emails, but the problem wasn't that Josh can't make the decision, the problem is that he doesn't bother to bring it to Ian, who can. At least three separate times Josh and I would come to an understanding, at which point he would tell me he needs to check with Ian, as it is Ian's business, and I would agree, as that is perfectly understandable. Then I would hear absolutely nothing back, would wait a couple weeks with no contact, would call again, only to find out, by his own admission, that Josh never even asked Ian about it. That happened at least 3 times. If Josh doesn't have the power to make decisions like that, it is his responsibility to bring the situation to the attention of a person who can. The fact that he can't make the decision on his own does not get him off the hook for doing anything about it.

I personally work in a sales industry, and if one of my clients has a request that I can not ok on my own, I immediately contact my supervisor for approval. Whether I get it or not, I immediately contact the client to let them know. To simply not get around to asking the boss about it is completely ridiculous. I can't say for sure that this is Josh's fault. He could be lazy, or maybe he just has way too much on his plate, but either way, it is Outback Reptiles' responsibility, as a sales organization, to make sure these issues get handled. If the problem is Josh, then someone needs to make sure Josh handles his responsibilities. If Josh is a great guy, but he is overworked, then it is still Outback's responsibility to put a system in place that can handle the issues, even if that means they need to hire someone else to help Josh out.

Originally Posted by cguarino30

This was the excuse given to me upon many of my calls or emails, but the problem wasn't that Josh can't make the decision, the problem is that he doesn't bother to bring it to Ian, who can. At least three separate times Josh and I would come to an understanding, at which point he would tell me he needs to check with Ian, as it is Ian's business, and I would agree, as that is perfectly understandable. Then I would hear absolutely nothing back, would wait a couple weeks with no contact, would call again, only to find out, by his own admission, that Josh never even asked Ian about it. That happened at least 3 times. If Josh doesn't have the power to make decisions like that, it is his responsibility to bring the situation to the attention of a person who can. The fact that he can't make the decision on his own does not get him off the hook for doing anything about it.

I personally work in a sales industry, and if one of my clients has a request that I can not ok on my own, I immediately contact my supervisor for approval. Whether I get it or not, I immediately contact the client to let them know. To simply not get around to asking the boss about it is completely ridiculous. I can't say for sure that this is Josh's fault. He could be lazy, or maybe he just has way too much on his plate, but either way, it is Outback Reptiles' responsibility, as a sales organization, to make sure these issues get handled. If the problem is Josh, then someone needs to make sure Josh handles his responsibilities. If Josh is a great guy, but he is overworked, then it is still Outback's responsibility to put a system in place that can handle the issues, even if that means they need to hire someone else to help Josh out.

That aspect of customer service certainly made sense to me the way you explained it.

Doesn't put the OP off the hook as far as providing appropriate documentation regarding identity, but also doesn't excuse the seller's responsibility in this mess.

Originally Posted by Lucille

That might have worked for a day. But once he WAS aware, he and the owner should have worked to provide an answer. By now, it looks like more than an accidental delay.

It seems like both parties have a little to work on: the buyer is playing games with requests that he identify his third party, and the seller is not responding in a way that another buyer has now said was similar to the way he was treated.

Oops, seems you said it first...