Ian Curtis - Stolen African House Snakes

This Thread makes me Laugh.....It should be titled "How to Blow your Rep in 10 days" How to go from a potential VP of the KHS all the way back to "Snake shit excavator" Ian if you persist with this behavior......you will Drag the KHS thru the mess!

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

Just seeking clarification.



David, Did Ian state that Chris was there in another part of the conversation that wasn't in that screenshot?

I see where he stated that they could vouch for him but nothing about being there.
Looks like he is stating that they can vouch for him as a good person or something along those lines.


Switching Hats

You missed one profanity in that screenshot. Please be more careful.

Word for word, no Ian did not say that Chris was there....but he certainly implied it......I'll see if I can dig up the part where he said another memeber of the KHS was also present. Honestly, Ian probably *tried* to say that they were present, but his lack of ability to convey his thoughts precisely lead him to say "vouch for".....as you can see, he is not exactly a master wordsmith.

Here is the message where he backtracks after I confirmed that Chris was not present....

This was the conversation I had with Chris back in February of 2013. As you can see, I expressed my dismay at having to sell my collection of AHS, but corrected Chris that Ian did not own any of them. This was pretty much right after I dropped them off with Ian:




The efforts of me and Chris are what follows:











The rest will follow...

Chris's idea to use his attorney friend was not a bad one, even though I had my reservations. But it was still something I considered pointless without the proof that my snakes were still in his possession.

Legal action would cost more than the worth of the snakes. I am not made of money, and neither, I imagine, is Ian...which is why I have still not seen his cease and desist letter or any lawyer info. Police would be unable to really do anything, they cannot enter his house and take pictures just to show me. Besides, I cannot think of many officers who would know an albino AHS upon sight, anyway.

Lesson learned. When embarking upon a breeder loan, no matter HOW nice some one seems to be, or how many of your friends "know" him, write up a legal document. Have them sign it.

I have the sick, sinking feeling my snakes are either dead or sold.

Heres the deal.....*I* did not bring up my past issues with the KHS or anyone in it, Ian did that in private conversation on FB between him and myself. I do not feel I was being unreasonable with Chris in any of our conversations......perhaps the truth we are speaking is starting to settle in and he realizes what a calamity he is in the middle of. The KHS is already struggling, barely able to get people to come to meetings and membership is no doubt very very low these days. There are tons of people in the local reptile community who wish to have nothing to do with the group because of the previous long-time officers, and this situation isn't making them look any better.

If this situation goes unresolved and ignored by Ian and the other officers of the KHS, this very well could be the nail in the coffin for the group. Which sucks, because the *idea* of a strong local herp group sounds great.....but the abrasive personalities that have ruled it for many years have impeded such progress.

Originally Posted by SincereArtisan

Legal action would cost more than the worth of the snakes. I am not made of money, and neither, I imagine, is Ian...which is why I have still not seen his cease and desist letter or any lawyer info. Police would be unable to really do anything, they cannot enter his house and take pictures just to show me.

Legal aid is completely free if you qualify, and only requires a call to see. At the very minimum they can get an order from a judge that requires Ian to show the snakes to a humane or law enforcement officer.

You loaned him snakes, he kept them, you've got nothing back. This would most likely qualify as a scam and fall under the LAS's commerce area. Saw this type of stuff a lot when I worked at the law firm (usually with dirt bikes and tires). Most judges don't assume people just "give away" a few hundred dollars worth of stuff. You have good documentation. I'd try before throwing in the towel.

I have messaged Ian. My username on the KHS is jaygib9, I've helped them with their internet presence, created their Facebook page, and will be removing the KHS forums altogether very soon as most everything is on Facebook now anyways and the forums are hardly used. I've been a member of the KHS for years. I for one would love to see a resolution to this and want everyone to know that while Ian is a member of the KHS, right or wrong, his actions are his own and they shouldn't reflect upon the KHS either way.
Justin Gibson

Ian's actions *shouldn't* reflect on anyone but himself......but the reality is thats not how the world works today. His actions DO reflect poorly on the KHS as an entity, whether we want them to or not. And the KHS trying to sweep it all under the rug by deleting posts and ignoring the problem with one of their key officers isn't helping.

Nobody's trying to sweep it under the rug. It's pretty public at this point. I'd assume that whoever is removing the posts from the KHS site is doing so to keep the KHS out of it since it IS a personal matter and not a club one. I consider you a friend David, please refrain from attacks on the KHS, they aren't necessary.