Ian Curtis - Stolen African House Snakes

I have not "attacked" the KHS in any way, shape or form.....if telling the truth and showing people evidence is considered "attacking" then I cannot help that certain people have that perspective. I consider you a friend as well, Justin.....you're a good guy and always looking to help people out. I know your intentions are good. I do not hold that against you at all. But look at things from a wider viewpoint.....how does all of this look to an outsider? Does the KHS look better or worse as a result?

This stopped being a private issue when an officer of the KHS (Ian) suggested the issue be brought to an official meeting of the KHS for "resolution." Can you not see that the only one who has involved the KHS is Ian, through his own actions?

Ian is an officer of the KHS, but this is still a personal matter. It isn't going to be resolved at a KHS meeting, and I'd hope that the other officers of the KHS not allow it to be involved in personal matters. My viewpoint is irrelevant, as I wasn't there, and I don't know the truth, whatever it may be. I can only state an opinion, which I won't do. I care about the KHS, and what it and some of its members have done for the reptile, amphibian, and invertebrate enthusiasts in the area, and for the animals themselves.

"Basically, they don't care what he does as long as he doesn't screw *them* over." Things like this are why I said what I said, I'm looking out for the club, not myself, my reputation isn't at stake here, I know what kind of person I am and how I'd respond. The club and enthusiast community must be protected from personal issues.

If only Ian showed the level of concern that you do for the club's reputation......maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation if that were the case. :-/

I do see that his actions could reflect on us whether we want them to or not, with him being the new President/Vice-President, and this being a snake related issue.

Is there much to the KHS in terms of real clout or is it the seemingly impotent GI Joe action figure & Barbie doll play party with needlessly grandiose titles (which can be as meaningless as being CEO of a $250 LLC) as it appears like to me?

Behavior such as this of a "high-standing" member is not a mark in favor of a legitimate organization or even of a fledgling group aspiring to build a sense of legitimacy.

Exceedingly poor PR.

When I brought this issue to light, I was unaware if Ian's impending status as VP. Will Bird had not even stepped down yet. This initial posting to the BOI was intended to call Ian out for his behavior. Not the KHS.

Yes, it was an appalling shock that Ian was to be named VP. And it is only for my love of the KHS and what they represent that I have voiced my opinion of him all the more strongly. Some one who cannot deal with his own personal matters without the aid of an organization and it's members does NOT deserve to be an officer of that organization in any way. I tried--repeatedly--to deal with this matter in private. Ian chose to brin other names and the KHS into this, and still I tried to avoid involving them. Until, of course, I discovered that Ian was to be named VP. At that point I felt the members and fellow officers of the KHS deserved to know who was being appointed to represent them.

I repeat. Again. My fight is not with the KHS. (Not even after the hurtful remark from Will Bird, which I am not certain how I deserved.) It is with Ian Curtis. It is Ian's own fault that the KHS has been dragged this far into it. Had he come clean in the beginning and chosen to work this out like an adult, we would not be here.

Exactly.

Ian involved other members of KHS as a way to turn things in his favor and attempt to apply pressure to achieve it.

However, it is a mark against an organization to let itself or its members be manipulated in such a fashion. When Ian called them in, they were willing to get involved. Now that things are not going quite as smoothly as Ian may have hoped, people talk of Ian being "his own man" and are trying to bow out.

*If* Ian actually takes his impending role with KHS seriously and cares about whatever people believe the organization stands for, he would give Sarah back the snakes which are hers and put this ugliness behind him and behind the organization. Otherwise, it looks like officers can be called in for personal reasons and then make excuses about not wanting to be involved in personal disputes after having already engaged. Again, this speaks to a group's legitimacy, but not in its favor.

On that picture of Wills response, which was November 20th, which was when you sent a very long letter to Ian, I see no specific names or situations being mentioned. It appears to be a response to a generic comment. I can't speak for Will or anyone else, but this could easily be taken out of context and assigned to this specific situation without the people responding even knowing the full story at the time of their response. From the KHS site:

I would think everyone would applaud the KHS if they kicked Ian out if he did not fix this soon, what club would want a member with this going on running their organization?

Originally Posted by jaygib9

On that picture of Wills response, which was November 20th, which was when you sent a very long letter to Ian, I see no specific names or situations being mentioned. It appears to be a response to a generic comment. I can't speak for Will or anyone else, but this could easily be taken out of context and assigned to this specific situation without the people responding even knowing the full story at the time of their response.

Given the timeline and how hard Ian was trying to bring multiple people from your very organization into the drama, I find it highly unlikely people weren't aware of what was going on.