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Old 10-20-2019, 06:46 PM   #1
Emily_Doughty
Arroyo pastel?

Not sure what genes are in this girl. She was sold to me awhile ago as an arroyo pastel. Not super familiar with the arroyo gene though.

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Old 03-20-2020, 01:38 PM   #2
brandinVS
Def pastel arroyo.
 
Old 03-20-2020, 05:20 PM   #3
snowgyre
I disagree. I don't see arroyo in that animal. Arroyo typically forces a dorsal stripe and this animal has far too much banding. If I were you, request photos of the parents. She's darker than normal but that's not necessarily a characteristic of arroyo.
 
Old 03-20-2020, 06:23 PM   #4
brandinVS
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowgyre View Post
I disagree. I don't see arroyo in that animal. Arroyo typically forces a dorsal stripe and this animal has far too much banding. If I were you, request photos of the parents. She's darker than normal but that's not necessarily a characteristic of arroyo.

Its def a pastel arroyo. I sold it to her as such because I still have the paperwork and screenshot of the purchase. This animal came straight from Freedom Breeder
 
Old 03-20-2020, 06:30 PM   #5
brandinVS
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowgyre View Post
I disagree. I don't see arroyo in that animal. Arroyo typically forces a dorsal stripe and this animal has far too much banding. If I were you, request photos of the parents. She's darker than normal but that's not necessarily a characteristic of arroyo.
I still have the paperwork... I couldnt find it when I sold it to her, but I sent her the paperwork for the other imports I purchased from them as well.
Js
She had this snake listed as a Dinker on MM
Id hate to see someone think they struck gold on a new morph meanwhile its just a pastel arroyo, low quality pastel at that.
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Old 03-20-2020, 09:48 PM   #6
snowgyre
Here's the issue, Freedom Breeder bought a lot of their stock from Dan Wolfe when he retired. A lot of that stock was arroyo and possible arroyo stuff. I saw Dan's collection in person while he was still in business in Montana. I saw his pastel arroyos, pastel rios, along with a bunch of his other projects that have since stalled (nova, black lace, quake, some dinker stuff). Dan Wolfe was the originator of arroyo/rio, his channel is still on YouTube for reference but hasn't (understandably) been updated for years. I have an arroyo female straight from Dan because there was so much misidentification going on and I didn't trust anyone else but him.

I'm not doubting you, I'm doubting Freedom Breeder. Regardless of how this was listed and sold as, I don't see arroyo in that animal, not even a tiny bit. I'm surprised they sold it as such. If the animal was in my possession I would hesitate even calling it a possible arroyo simply because it's not expressing any of that gene at all.

Here is Dan Wolfe's video explaining what arroyo/rio does, notice the dorsal stripe in every single combo he brings out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSubcLxWTGc
 
Old 03-20-2020, 10:06 PM   #7
snowgyre
For comparison, I produced an orange dream enchi arroyo male last year from the female Dan sold me. Both orange dream and enchi are genes that like to form bands and normally lack a dorsal stripe. Arroyo is such a strong stripe gene that it forced a dorsal stripe even in a combo that shouldn't be striped at all. Considering how easy pastel is to manipulate with pattern-changing genes, any pastel that doesn't hatch out will a full, strong dorsal stripe I would hesitate to call arroyo.

Ironically I didn't hatch any plain jane enchi orange dreams last year (my only other comparison is het pied, which isn't a fair comparison), but there are plenty of photos online you can compare with.

Like I said above, I don't mean to offend anyone or call anyone's integrity in question, I just don't see any arroyo in that pastel and I've seen my fair share of pastel arroyo/rios.
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Old 03-27-2020, 02:13 PM   #8
michiganexotics
i agreed with Vanessa that doesn't look like Pastel Arroyo, provably other gene its on this one? that's why the wacky aliens on this pastel?? if i remember correctly Dan was the king of dinkers back in those days. i don't have nothing against Freedom Breeder but Vanessa its right they get all the collection with a lot dinkers and possibles. now that been say i never agreed with Dan when he was calling hets Rios. Arroyo (Rios) are incomplete dom or what we used call back in the days co-dom. Arroyos are visual. and yes i do own few Arroyos
 

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