Terri Sommella Fire and Ice Dragons -- Nightmare

Originally Posted by Rhegaldragons

this does not surprise me , I had a similar situation with terri, and unfortunately my bearded did not make it , she also became very hostile towards me , and said its my fault and that I had caused my pet to be impacted , and most likely will die , I am a vet tech, and a specialty vet tech in exotics and avian pets , and my dragon was not impacted , I did xrays , barium studies , endoscopy and when it died , a necropsy was performed and the pathologist never found any kind of impaction or obstruction .

my pet did not eat for approximately two months , of which I had to force feed my dragon , my temperature was adequate , and my diet as well , last thing Terri made up was that my cage was not big enough for the dragon and this was the reason for her not eating ,
I mean it was excuse after excuse about the dragons , the real truth is she sold a sick dragon that ended up dying and didn't want to take responsibility for it, I agree with you , if your going to buy a dragon from terri somella , make sure you do your homework , cause my experience was not a good one , and from asking other breeders in my area , seems this is her way of doing business, and quite frankly for the pices she's harging she should take more responsibility In what she sells , I also paid her a hefty price for the dragon, but will never buy a dragon from her ever again .

What did the necropsy show was the cause of death?

Here are the results of the necropsy .

MICROSCOPIC
DESCRIPTION MICROSCOPIC INTERPRETATION:
LUNGS (2): intra-airway mucoid material with entrapped cell debris
LARGE INTESTINE (4-5): mild heterophilic colitis
KIDNEY (5): perirenal/subcapsular renal hemorrhage with fibrin
deposition and early fibroplasia (organizing hematoma)
LIVER (6-7): severe diffuse hepatic lipidosis
HEART (1); ESOPHAGUS (1); STOMACH (3); SMALL INTESTINE (3); OVARY AND
OVIDUCT (6); GALLBLADDER (6); BRAIN (7): no significant lesions
MICROSCOPIC
INTERPRETATION FINAL DIAGNOSTIC ASSESSMENT:
MILD HETEROPHILIC COLITIS
SEVERE DIFFUSE HEPATIC LIPIDOSIS
PERIRENAL/SUBCAPSULAR RENAL HEMATOMA

So fatty liver disease?

Stomach and/or intestinal inflammation/ulcers.

Fatty liver disease.

Intestinal bruising/bleeding.

That was one sick dragon that was sold to you sick. How old was the dragon?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I found this page after doing a google search for reviews on Fire & Ice Dragons and Terri and thought I would share my extremely disappointing experience with Terri and it has nothing to do with the quality of her dragons or anything of that nature. I cannot speak to that as we didn't even get so far as to even purchase a dragon.

I can post the email trail if you prefer, but I have summarized my experience below (apologies for the length):

I am a novice bearded dragon owner. I owned one in college over 10+ years ago and I really enjoyed him prior to his untimely demise at the hands of a vet I entrusted with his care (killed him performing an enema). Well, fast forward to now, I have young girls now and we don't have any other pets so I started looking into getting another bearded dragon about a year ago. After a bunch of research I decided I would need to build him a custom cage as there just wasn't much out there you could buy (at least not locally) that would fit him in it. Well, after starting and stopping work on it several times I finally wrapped up a couple of weeks ago. After looking around the local pet shops, I was somewhat disappointed in the color options so I started looking online. I found Fire and Ice and loved the looks of some of her Citrus dragons.

So I reached out to Terri telling her what I was looking for and asking about pricing (and admittedly being fairly ignorant on a lot about bearded dragons colors and breeding/etc). I explained how I really liked the color of breeder "Goliath" who was a brilliant citrus (honestly, he is colored just like a highlighter). She quickly informed me a baby of his color quality would run me about $500. She was extremely helpful at first educating me the price differences and what my money would get me. After a couple more back and forth emails I told her I wanted one that would be the $200 quality (which after shipping would still put it at $300 range or so). She said she may have one or two available (ranging in price from $200-$300) that would be ready to ship within 1-2 weeks or whenever they got 10 grams. Great. Then I asked if she could provide me with a picture of the ones I was looking to buy. Big mistake on my part I guess.

First, she told me that they were in the middle of a shed and why would I want a picture as it wouldn't tell me anything as to what they would look as an adult. I replied that I understood that and that I wasn't expecting him to be a brilliant color like Goliath anyhow and that I really just was more interested in seeing a pic just to get a look at the guy. I even told her that that if she wanted to wait until after they shed that would be fine as well. I also explained my wife and I's hesitation in buying a lizard online in the first place and that we at least would want to see a picture prior to purchase. Not too unreasonable of a request in my opinion.

Well, I guess she took offense to my comment about purchasing something online without seeing it. She responds with an unsolicited details of her business and background (been in business for 17 years, how she has over 20k likes on her Facebook page, and that some publisher reached out to her of ALL the bearded dragon breeders for input about some book they wanted to put out about Bearded dragon care/breeding/etc). She then ended the email with the sentence, "But if that is not enough to be trusted my suggestion is to go somewhere else. Thanks."

I wrote back saying essentially, "wow" and that I didn't expect such a rude reply simply for requesting a few pictures of the bearded dragon I was wanting to purchase and that she is correct in that if she was going to treat me that way I would take my business elsewhere. She wrote back again saying that she was sorry if I found her "facts" to be rude and that she was sure I could go find many other breeders online with plenty of dragons who could provide me with "hundreds" of pictures and that she wasn't a "warehouse breeder" and essentially told me good luck.

I really am shocked if this is how this lady treats potential customers after asking for a simple picture of the bearded dragon they want to purchase. I wrote her back explaining exactly how I felt about how I was treated and was shocked she would treat someone who was looking to spend that kind of money (which I realize is nothing to her) that way. And basically told her good luck and that she would need it if that is how she treated potential customers for such a mundane request.

Like I said, I have the email transcripts and will post if anyone wants me to so you can see it went essentially just the way I described above. I wasn't rude (or at least had no intention as coming off as disrespectful in any way) but from what I have gathered in my few searches online she is described as "short" or "blunt" or "better to talk to on the phone" which to me is just a nice way of saying she is extremely rude.

Just seeing if anyone else had so much resistance from her in providing pictures of her dragons or her being so rude for seemingly an innocent and what I would think is a common request of someone in her line of work? To be honest, I wasn't all that worried about her reputation until she acted that way and pushed back so hard on the picture then it made me start to dig deeper and here I am.

Again, I apologize for the length, I just can't get over how rude she was. Also, any suggestions for quality breeders (who aren't rude) as I am obviously still in the market for a beardy. Thanks.

Unbelievable, you actually wanted to see the animal before purchasing! Just kidding, that is a very reasonable request and most breeders have no problem at all with this. I would definitely check here for reputable dealers, send me a pm and I can give you a couple to check out.

It is always best to post proof and conversations as screen shots. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Here is her latest response:

"Wow. You just don’t get it at all. Please find your cheap dragon elsewhere from a breeder who does not care, will not help you and whose dragon will die. We spend 5 hours of coaching per customers easily. That is our gig, gorgeous, purebred, healthy dragons and a breeder who cares and spends hours in coaching long after the sale to make sure the dragon and owner are okay. I find your rants insulting. I will not sell you a dragon. Just go okay. Thanks.,"

Wow. So she is willing to spend countless hours training/coaching her customers yet one measly request for a picture of a dragon sends her off the edge? I think she may be certifiable.

Here is the entire email trail:

FSUrf02 . <reidforrest@gmail.com>
1:37 PM (2 minutes ago)

to Terri
What don't I get? You say in one breath how you spend hours upon hours with your customers to provide all this customer support, but me simply requesting a picture of the dragon I would like to purchase sends you over the edge???? Can you honestly hear yourself?

So you sell cheap dragons now? That must be what you are saying because you told me you had some in my the $200 price range. And, thank you for making it perfectly clear what got you so upset in the first place. I guess me deciding not to go with the $500 dragon and instead opting for the $200 one really burst your bubble. I see it is all about the $ with you. Phew, I'm actually glad I avoided doing business with you (and many people online seem to hold that same sentiment by the way). Yeah, you may want to step outside of the comfy confines of those echo chambers (your facebook page and website) where you can control the content and hear what people actually think about you and your company. And I just added my damning "testimonial" to the countless others as well.

And I'm sorry if you find my rants insulting. I was just providing you with "facts". But again, things didn't turn ugly until you decided you wanted to make it that way. And at least it is out in the open it was all because I chose not to buy one of your $500 dragons. Pathetic.

And please, spare me with the "I will not sell you a dragon". If I didn't make it perfectly clear already I would never purchase a dragon you. You aren't the only person in the world who can breed dragons I can assure you of that.

Bye bye.


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com> wrote:
Wow. You just don’t get it at all. Please find your cheap dragon elsewhere from a breeder who does not care, will not help you and whose dragon will die. We spend 5 hours of coaching per customers easily. That is our gig, gorgeous, purebred, healthy dragons and a breeder who cares and spends hours in coaching long after the sale to make sure the dragon and owner are okay. I find your rants insulting. I will not sell you a dragon. Just go okay. Thanks.,


From: FSUrf02 . [mailto:reidforrest@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:01 PM

To: Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com>
Subject: RE: Looking to Purchase a Dragon

Terri,

It wasn't your "facts" that I found rude. I actually found your inclusion of them more confusing than anything as it was completely irrelevant to my request (for pictures) and it came off as rather defensive and insecure to be perfectly honest. No, the part I was referring to as rude was where you told a potential customer who was looking to spend $300 (or more) with you, that "maybe I should go elsewhere" simply for requesting a picture (one or two, not "hundreds") of the dragon I was wanting to purchase. Now, I realize that $300 may be chump change to you, but $300 is still a good amount of money especially for a dragon, and I am of the opinion that a business should be judged on how they treat all of their customers, small and big.

And I apologize if it was my comment about our hesitation in buying a dragon from online breeders that you took as a slight to your integrity. That wasn't my intent at all. That comment was more about my wife and I's general anxiety of the online buying process as typically we like to be able to see, touch, and interact with any pets prior to taking them into our homes. However, we realize that this particular situation was different and we would have to get over our apprehension. But I never dreamed that I I would ever encounter such resistance to simply asking for a picture of the bearded dragon I was looking to purchase. I guess I figured that was common practice and that you would understand our desire to see him prior to purchase. I guess I was wrong.

I mean, even your own website is littered with pictures of your dragons. If your opinion is people should just trust your knowledge and expertise and blindly fork over their cash no questions asked, then why have any pictures on your website at all? Just take them all down and leave up nothing but your "facts" and see how that works out for you. But of course you wouldn't do that. Because most people like to at least see what they are going to buy before they purchase it and me simply requesting a picture of the dragon you were trying to sell me should not elicit the absolutely rude and patronizing response I received. How you don't see that is beyond me.

But this all wasted breath at this point. It was never my intent to get into a pissing match with you and I am honestly shocked how this whole interaction has taken such an ugly turn over what I view as such a benign request. I was simply looking to purchase a dragon. Obviously, that that isn't going to happen now. Not from you at least. So you are correct, I will gladly take my business elsewhere and I will be sure to share my experience I've had with you to anyone who cares to hear it. So good luck with your business. You'll absolutely need it if this is how you treat the average customer.




On Jul 24, 2017 11:50 PM, "Terri Sommella" <terri@fireandicedragons.com> wrote:
I am sorry you took the facts I mentioned as rude. I guess to me I took the original comment as an insult to our integrity. But I agree. I am sure you can find all sorts of breeders that have so many unsold dragons to send hundreds of pics. We are not a warehouse breeder. I really hope it works out for you. Thanks and good luck.

From: FSUrf02 . [mailto:reidforrest@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 10:07 PM

To: Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com>
Subject: RE: Looking to Purchase a Dragon

Wow. I'm really having a hard time understanding why I am getting such a rude response when I literally have only asked for a picture of the bearded dragon I would like to purchase. But you are right. If simply asking for a picture of my future purchase solicits such a response I absolutely will be taking my business elsewhere.



On Jul 24, 2017 7:55 PM, "Terri Sommella" <terri@fireandicedragons.com> wrote:
Hi Rein, No problem. We have been in business 17 years, only breed purebred dragons, have over 20,000 LIKES on Facebook and testimonials on our website and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/terri.sommella . The publisher asked me of all bearded dragon breeders to rewrite the Bearded Dragon Manual. But if that is not enough to be trusted my suggestion is to go somewhere else. Thanks.


From: FSUrf02 . [mailto:reidforrest@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 3:47 PM
To: Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com>
Subject: Re: Looking to Purchase a Dragon

I understand, and I'm really not trying to determine what he will look at as far as his adult color (I understand they change significantly each time they shed until they reach maturity) and understand that the $200 lizard I want will not turn out to be nearly as brilliant of a color as Goliath or Sundance. But I am having a hard enough time convincing my wife (and myself really) to purchase a dragon we can't look at in person; much less purchasing one without seeing a single picture of him. If it is a matter of waiting a week or so until he sheds to get it, I am willing to do so and if someone beats me to the punch by buying him before then, than so be it. Sorry, not trying to be a pain, just hoping to get a look at the little guy before making a commitment. Thanks again.

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com> wrote:
I asked Adam and he said he was in full shed. On top of that they change a lot after each shed so I am not sure what you would be able to tell in terms of adult color.

From: FSUrf02 . [mailto:reidforrest@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 2:28 PM

To: Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com>
Subject: Re: Looking to Purchase a Dragon

Any way I could get some pictures of him prior to locking it in? Want to be able to show my wife tonight then I should have you an answer by this evening or tomorrow at the latest. Thanks.

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com> wrote:
I just spoke to Adam. We have a 200 non leatherback super citrus baby at 8 grams so he can ship in 1-2 weeks or until he is 10 grams in body weight.



From: FSUrf02 . [mailto:reidforrest@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 1:24 PM
To: Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com>
Subject: Re: Looking to Purchase a Dragon

Terri,

Appreciate the info. And you are correct there is a noticeable difference, but I'm still thinking I would probably be alright with the $200 color quality (possibly look at the $300 but that would be the highest I go). There may come a time when I will want to get a second dragon and I may splurge and get a really high quality one similar to Sundance or Goliath, but I'm more concerned with the temperament than the color quality being exactly what I want this go around.

Let me know if you have any males that would be available shortly in the $200-$300 price range. I appreciate it.

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com> wrote:
Reid, There is a huge difference between color qualities. If you go to our Pricing and Breeders page, look at Buttercup versus Sundance. Buttercup would have sold for 300, Sundance for 500. Let me know which you prefer and I will ask Adam once he gets here. Thanks, Terri

From: FSUrf02 . [mailto:reidforrest@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:25 PM

To: Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com>
Subject: RE: Looking to Purchase a Dragon

I probably would be looking at the $200 color quality considering the shipping cost would put me closer to $300. But would be interested in knowing just how much difference there would be between the different levels of quality.

On Jul 24, 2017 12:17 PM, "Terri Sommella" <terri@fireandicedragons.com> wrote:
If you let me know which color quality you would like I will ask Adam if we have one that can ship now or very soon. He can only post pics of babies out of shed so we have more than is posted. Just let me know. Thanks.


From: FSUrf02 . [mailto:reidforrest@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:08 PM
To: Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com>
Subject: RE: Looking to Purchase a Dragon

I apologize, I misunderstood you. Ok. I'll let you know. I'm thinking 8 weeks may be a little longer than we wanted to wait for the babies but I'll talk to the wife and decide. Thanks for the info.

On Jul 24, 2017 12:04 PM, "Terri Sommella" <terri@fireandicedragons.com> wrote:
Reid,

They are still hatching so we can’t send pics. In any event 99% of our dragons are sold by pre-sale. Once babies are old enough to sex, we assign all pre-sold dragons. If any are left over we post a pic on the for sale page of our website. Hope this clarifies things.

Shipping to FL is 75.

Thanks,

Terri

From: FSUrf02 . [mailto:reidforrest@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 11:58 AM
To: Terri Sommella <terri@fireandicedragons.com>
Subject: RE: Looking to Purchase a Dragon

Terri,

Woud you mind sending me pics of the two citrus males you have that are priced at $200 and $300? They both are scaled correct? Thanks.

For shipping I am located in Lakeland, FL 33811.

On Jul 24, 2017 11:51 AM, "Terri Sommella" <terri@fireandicedragons.com> wrote:
Hi Reid,

Goliath is a super citrus and would have sold for 500 as a baby. We have super citrus males for 300 and 200 as well. It depends on color quality.

Yes. Luna has normal scaled and leatherbacks with Rocket.

The babies are still hatching so these little ones will be big enough to ship in about 8 weeks. We are accepting pre-orders now if you are interested.

Just let me know which color quality you would like and the state we would be shipping to so I can look up shipping. It runs 45-95 depending.

Thanks!

Terri

Terri Sommella
Author of the 2017 rewrite of The Bearded Dragon Manual. To place your order, please send your request through one of the methods below.
Fire and Ice Dragons
www.fireandicedragons.com
1-717-359-8669
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000688976689
terri@fireandicedragons.com
https://twitter.com/#!/fireicedragons




From: FSUrf02 . [mailto:reidforrest@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 10:34 AM
To: terri@fireandicedragons.com
Subject: Looking to Purchase a Dragon

Hey Terri,

I'm looking to purchase a bearded dragon. I had one some time ago when I was in college and am looking to have another. We still haven't settled on exactly the type of dragon we are looking to purchase, but tend to lean towards the citrus color and I think we'd prefer a normal "scaled" or "spikey" one rather than the Leatherback. If I could hand select the exact way I want my dragon to look once full grown, your retired breeder "Goliath" would be it. He is gorgeous.

I see that you had some babies from Luna and Rocket that hatched on 7/18/17. You'll have to pardon my ignorance on the genetics of breeding bearded dragons, but with Luna appearing to a "normal" or scaled dragon, is there a possibility that some of the babies will be normal or scaled?

Also, can you tell me how many you have, their pricing, and when they would be available to be shipped?

If you would prefer to call me on my cell to discuss you can reach me at 813-362-8555. I am very interested and would like to get it purchased as soon as possible. Thanks again for your time.





Reid Forrest

What terrible customer service. Add to my do-not-by-from list! Wow.

I've bought several animals online and always had photos, or got an updated photo if the current one was old. If a seller won't even give me a picture (for visual verification and also identification that I receive the correct animal I pay for) then I am not buying from them.

There are plenty of good sellers who are happy to give you a photo, so it's her loss, not yours that she showed her real self so quickly.