Keeping lampropelits zonata agalma in Calif - FaunaClassifieds
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:54 PM   #1
tirzo13
Keeping lampropelits zonata agalma in Calif

Whats the rules on keeping L.z. agalma in California.
Not logical but an actual answer.

As far as i can read California does not accept subspecies, so therefore the "agalma" subspecies is simply L. zonata and the same permit rules apply.
you can keep with permit, but you can't sell.

Does not matter that its from Mexico, as its a California species.
Logically its a mexican snake, but again show me the reg that states its allowed, vs. California reg not accepting subspecies.

Also, not "Joe" has been raising them for years and talked to a warden, id like it written, or at least that wardens name.

Or give me a state address where people respond, as i have mailed multiple address and a warden without a reply.

Same should apply to cal kings collected in Arizona/Nevada or Mexico (Permit does allow you to sell these) but still need a permit, vs. NO PERMIT.

anybody have an answer or a dependable warden to ask?
 
Old 09-05-2018, 03:20 PM   #2
KingsnakeKing
I can refer you to someone who can give you an answer. John Lassiter of CoastalBendCaptiveBreeding. You can contact him through his instagram with the same name (coastalbendcaptivebreeding). He is super knowledgeable and would be more than happy to answer your question.
 
Old 09-05-2018, 03:24 PM   #3
KingsnakeKing
He is also a member here with username "jlassiter"
 
Old 09-05-2018, 03:59 PM   #4
tirzo13
Talked to 2 officials.
Basically state can cite and prosecute but chooses not to.

Border does not matter and technically today there is only 2 species.
Technically there are no subspecies in today's taxonomy.
State uses the subspecies status in this case because it allows protection of San Diego and San bernadino mountain zonatas.

I was looking for documented legal wording. It doesn't exist though herpers believe it does.
Even state will just say you should be ok. But stop short of saying it's legal.
 
Old 09-06-2018, 02:47 AM   #5
KingsnakeKing
Wow thank you for that! The elimination of a lot of subspecies across the board has created a lot of confusion and dispute among the herpetological community so I can't imagine the problems non-herper state officials must be having trying to decipher this problem. I was discussing this same issue about pyromelena, as virtually all subspecies seem to have been abolished, and from what you have stated I'm sure the motivation behind the change in taxonomy was similar. Thank you again for your insight as you have added considerable pieces to this modern day puzzle.
 
Old 09-06-2018, 07:21 AM   #6
tirzo13
As of 2017 there is just 2 zonata. L.ZONATA AND L.MULTIFASCIATA.
All subspecies in this group have been invalidated.

Herpers won't agree with this because it puts "agalma" in more of a gray area and compromising them.

But as I said, CFW is not going to change anything in the near future.
 
Old 09-06-2018, 07:23 AM   #7
tirzo13
Get the 2017 edition of Standard and Scientific Names of Reptiles and Amphibians.
It has all the updates and the journals cited of any taxonomy changes.
 
Old 09-06-2018, 02:24 PM   #8
KingsnakeKing
Thanks, i definitely will!
 

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