Casey Smith. Buyer Backs Out, what do you guys think?

Does this guy and his wife know that you're posting his wife's PHI on the internet? I'd be pretty upset if I were one of them, personally. It's one thing for him to choose to send it to you, but IMO if you're posting this here without them knowing, I'd consider that a violation of privacy.

All that being said- IMO this whether the hospital story is true or not really isn't all that relevant. The guy could not hold up his end of the deal. Which leaves the ball now entirely in your court. If you want to extend your agreement, then do so. If you don't want to, then don't. Either you accept the risk of being further jerked around, or you don't. I personally find digging into the details someone else's personal life like this unprofessional.

Originally Posted by JudyC

Heh...we were typing at the same time. I didn't mentioned game playing earlier, but I definitely think I see it going on now...and not on the part of the buyer.

As for proof...the seller didn't stipulate exactly what kind of proof he expected. And we're talking $60 here. If it were $6000 on the line, more stringent evidence might reasonably be requested. But it's $60 freakin' dollars. The seller has been wishy washy about the whole thing from the start, so I don't see why some sort of solid, bullet-proof evidence should be demanded at this point.

Regarding your last statement, I couldn't agree more!!

Sorry, Judy.

The word "game" was used to describe the "feeling/perception" that I perceived in your first post. You described this situation so well from the outset that I immediately thought, "Judy is SO right, I wonder WHY he feels that he needs to post this....and then the words that came to mind were: "Someone is playing games." )

*** Transactional Analysis: Games People Play.
http://www.amazon.com/Games-People-P.../dp/0345410033

Originally Posted by TraceH

I just need some sort of documentation that shows the name of the hospital, your wife's name and the date. You can scan and email or fax me the document. If you can prove that something bad has befallen you, like your wife needing surgery I will pay you the money back.
Trace

I understand the TOS and business concerns made by the experienced members here, and they were and are relevant in exploring when refunds are proper.

But once a seller makes a committment like this, the issues change. Now, it is a matter of whether we can expect this buyer to do what she has promised to do.

Originally Posted by Lucille

this buyer

this seller

Originally Posted by JudyC

. Not because you're obligated to on the grounds of your TOS, but because you SAID you would if he gave proof his wife had been in the hospital and he did so.

Well said.

"From: Casey Smiith <kclsmith1983@yahoo.com>
To: Trace Hardin <tracehardin@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: I have a new Yahoo! email address
my job has been running short hours for the last few weeks but i think it will be running 40 plus next week"

Why wouldn't the guy mention his wife being in the hospital on 10/7 in this email? He had to know he'd have some extra bills to pay.

That said, I still think you should refund because of what JudyC said, even if it seems a little fishy.

Originally Posted by TraceH

Re: reguarding the snakes
FROM:Casey Smiith
TO:Trace Hardin
Message flagged Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:37 PMMessage body
here is a pic of the hospital band that when my wife went to the hospital

I do agree that, at this point, the seller is being a little petty in this little "game" he has begun playing with the buyer in some misguided attempt to teach him a lesson.

However, I would like to point a few things out and play Devil's Advocate here.

The wrist band he posted (which he should have blurred out the ID numbers from) is an E.R. Band. You can see where it says "Reg E.R." meaning "Registered in the E.R.". In my experience, when you are admitted to the hospital from the E.R. you are given another wrist band and the E.R. one is removed. The reasons behind this, from my experience, again, is that the bar code on the E.R. wrist band reacts different to actual hospital admissions wrist bands (i.e. when they give you medication and such, they scan your wrist band to put it into a computer and properly store information to lesson the chances of medication being given improperly).

Does this mean the wrist band posted was just for an E.R. visit? Not necessarily, seeing as how an appendectomy can be done via a laproscope nowadays and be an out-patient procedure (meaning, you leave the same day but are laid up for a little bit at home). Still, it is some food for thought.

Now, as far as people complaining about the buyer not bringing this to the attention of the seller sooner. Though I have insurance that covers my medical costs for hospitals 100%, I do know that some insurance companies who only cover partial costs, take a week or so to decide what they are going to pay and what they are not going to pay before billing the insured. Most of the time, this leaves people in the dark for just exactly how much they are going to have to pay for any given hospital visit since the pricing is vastly different from just going to a regular physician's office.

So, what is my point? My point is, the buyer may not been aware of just how much money he was going to end up owning the E.R. or the Hospital. The buyer may also have not wanted to just throw his personal life in the OP's face. I can understand that.

Is there a chance he is lying? Of course. But there is also a chance he is not and that is why this thread is here, because the OP himself was not sure.

At the end of the day, here is the bottom line ... TOS should be treated as a guideline, not something set in absolute stone. In the business world, you have to decide when to abide by them to the "T" and when you give some form of leniency. Some people will see such an act as weakness and opening yourself up to future issues of similar function, but unless you run around telling everyone what you did, how exactly would they know?

You did ask the guy for some form of proof. He provided it. Now you are being a jerk about giving him the money back. If you did not want to give him the money back then you should have just told him "I cannot due to my TOS, but I will credit you for a future purchase" or something to that effect. Allowing him the option to send you whatever proof he was willing to send put you in the position to honor your agreement and give back to the money. Do not act like you are doing some great thing by "annoying him for once".

Originally Posted by ShadowAceD

You did ask the guy for some form of proof. He provided it. Now you are being a jerk about giving him the money back. If you did not want to give him the money back then you should have just told him "I cannot due to my TOS, but I will credit you for a future purchase" or something to that effect. Allowing him the option to send you whatever proof he was willing to send put you in the position to honor your agreement and give back to the money. Do not act like you are doing some great thing by "annoying him for once".

^^^ This.

I think the seller was enjoying this a little bit, making this guy dance. I don't think he was expecting the guy to actually come up with the EXACT evidence he requested. Now that he has, he's trying to find a way out of the BUSINESS TRANSACTION he said he'd make if the buyer provided said proof?

Bad move.

And the funny thing is, he had every right to just say "no"... until he threw the buyer a bone he had no intention of honoring. I think that says a lot, actually. About the seller, not the buyer.

i agree with the above post for the most part. i think my only issue would be, the buyer could have said much earlier, hey my wife had/is having a surgery, not quite sure where i will be and stand with all this, so why dont we cut the deal now and can i just get my deposit back
thats whats great about a private business, you can wave tos and regulations. my veterinary clinic is a corporation, i have no authority to wave any charges or anything like that, our rules are set by a board of directors, but has a hobbiest or private, single business owner, you have that ability

Originally Posted by reticguy76

i agree with the above post for the most part. i think my only issue would be, the buyer could have said much earlier, hey my wife had/is having a surgery, not quite sure where i will be and stand with all this, so why dont we cut the deal now and can i just get my deposit back
thats whats great about a private business, you can wave tos and regulations. my veterinary clinic is a corporation, i have no authority to wave any charges or anything like that, our rules are set by a board of directors, but has a hobbiest or private, single business owner, you have that ability

Yes, he could have, but does everyone react a specific way when under duress? No. If indeed her appendix had to removed, and if indeed it was done so after admittance into an E.R. it was a serious situation. The symptoms of appendicitis can present within hours before the appendix has to come out as soon as physically possible. Though we tend to look at it as a minor issue numerous people deal with, a ruptured appendix can kill someone.

Believe me, when I am being admitted into the E.R. or a family member is, the last thought in my head is "Oh, crap! I forgot to pay that bill!" or this that and the other. I will not pretend I know what was going on in the buyer's head when all of this went down, but I can tell you I am likely not the only one who cannot.