Smoothies

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

Just to clear things up - I am not selling known positive dragons. I am breeding large, healthy dragons. I just had my first clutch this year hatch. Every single one hatched out over 4" and they are now 5"+ long at 2 weeks old. They are thriving and growing like crazy. All of my dragons are perfectly fine and I see no reason in the world to stop breeding them. Funny thing is people seem to actually LIKE big, healthy, thriving dragons! If I were among the people who had mass die-offs for some reason, I would stop breeding as well until I got to the bottom of the problem and made the neccesary changes.

I think it is sad that I could not even post a link to something that I thought was interesting without getting my head bitten off. After looking more closely at those pictures, I notice that the animal appears to be a young juvenile. How many of you out there have young juvie dragons with massive fat pads on their heads? And I don't see protruding hip bones. And as far as a wide tail base - once again, give the animal some time to grow before you make that judgement. It just looks to me like a young juvie, possibly female.

I agree with what Bobby pointed out. Breeding one silkback to another silkback would present obvious problems. Perhaps little leather helmets could be made for them during the breeding season. I'm just kidding. No snippy responses please.

I am not saying that breeding this animal is right. I am not saying at this point that it is wrong. Is it not the nature of man to cultivate nature? Look at what we have done with dogs. Cats. Fish. Horses. We've taken what is normal and natural and bent it to fit our needs and desires. Do you think the people who bred hairless dogs and rats are evil? I don't. This is just a typical case of people over-reacting to something that they don't fully understand.
Perhaps disgust is the appropriate reaction in this situation - I don't know the answer to that yet. But for goodness sakes, stop being so hateful about it!

Jamie

I never said that you were breeding them my "you" was a general statement. In reference to the comment about breeders still breeding infected dragons against advise.
I personally have big healthy dragons too.. I have 22-24 inch dragons. Who were intended to be my breeders. Decided to run this test and came up positive. This was my choice. Have I had issues. No not really with them. Thats not the point. My results stated that it was not advisable to sell or breed this dragons. So did whomever else tested positive.
I say personally look what man has done to ruin alot of species. Its happended. Dogs, cats everything.. I dont agree with it.

So far all I have found on these dragons is mid 90s for temps or they will burn. and a lower uvb. They also have to have humidity. Which to me theres a possibility of increased respritory issues then. Maybe not if its low enough.
then the lack of basking spots.. and things to climb.. sounds like an incredibly protective life

Nah, I don't buy the increased respiratory problems. My dragons live in AR. They are used to swimming through the air. It does not bother them, never has, lol.

Jamie

Originally Posted by Saladragon

Okay. So I really thought these looked cool...until I thought what it had to take to create them, and how their care must not be the same as a regular bearded dragon, simply because they have nothing to protect them.

I have a couple of questions that I really hope someone can answer. Weren't we all just told that one of the things that makes a dragons more susceptible to Adenovirus is inbreeding? And, no, I am NOT asking if anyone thinks that Adenovirus is important. I already live the answer to that question.

My other question would be do these dragons have different health standards than regular beardies? The reason I ask is that some of the things we have been taught to look for to show health of regular bearded dragons (such as good fat pads, wide tail bases and padded tailbones) is clearly not present with the silkbacks pictured.

My first thought when I saw these was YUCK! My second thought was yuck, yuck! Not because they aren't a little bit fascinating, but because they ARE fascinating because of the freak factor.
I was born with a rare genetic disorder that has nothing to do with inbreeding, but is still the result of damaged DNA. The genetic "fluke" that creates this isn't really all that cute, when inbreeding happens to the point that it significantly alters the natural characteristics of an animal, all sorts of nasty things can happen. We've seen it with "purebred" dogs for years, in the effort to create something different or standardized, we ended up creating a whole mess of problems that will haunt certain dog breeds forever. Sad that reptiles have become popular enough that we're now doing the same thing to them.

If ANYONES colony, or even PET dragons have the adenovirus. THEY SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING.

Man, Us Ball Python people would be Strung up and Hung, then drawn and Quartered. Sewn back together, only to be dragged at 90mph across a freeway with somone squeezing Lemon Juice into the Wounds, if we were to continue Selling Animals that carried a virus. IBD anyone? Maybe not so drastic, but DANG. Enough is Enough!

Just like the Scaleless ball pythons, and how so many are against it, why on EARTH should people be breeding and selling Dragons with no scales? Its all wrong....

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

If ANYONES colony, or even PET dragons have the adenovirus. THEY SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING.

Man, Us Ball Python people would be Strung up and Hung, then drawn and Quartered. Sewn back together, only to be dragged at 90mph across a freeway with somone squeezing Lemon Juice into the Wounds, if we were to continue Selling Animals that carried a virus. IBD anyone? Maybe not so drastic, but DANG. Enough is Enough!

Just like the Scaleless ball pythons, and how so many are against it, why on EARTH should people be breeding and selling Dragons with no scales? Its all wrong....

The sad thing is, Alicia, it's being done, and the animals are the one paying the price. I so wish bearded dragons could talk so they could tell their humans to KNOCK IT OFF!!!

Originally Posted by Saladragon

The sad thing is, Alicia, it's being done, and the animals are the one paying the price. I so wish bearded dragons could talk so they could tell their humans to KNOCK IT OFF!!!

Well then its up to us to talk for them! :P and the People that are upstanding in the bearded dragon community should fight it with all they've got! its the only way its going to be stopped.

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

Well then its up to us to talk for them! :P and the People that are upstanding in the bearded dragon community should fight it with all they've got! its the only way its going to be stopped.

There are a lot of people who are afraid at this point to really get involved in the whole Adenovirus issue, and I understand why more than most people. Its been a while since my experience, but it still leaves a very bitter taste when I think of it.
I know good people who have stepped away from breeding completely. I know other people who have just walked away from the communities that support breeders in disgust at the way this situation has been handled. For the most part, people just don't discuss it, no one wants to be vocal about their test results, negative or positive, because no matter what the results say or where you have them done, someone is going to bash you for them.

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

If ANYONES colony, or even PET dragons have the adenovirus. THEY SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING.

Man, Us Ball Python people would be Strung up and Hung, then drawn and Quartered. Sewn back together, only to be dragged at 90mph across a freeway with somone squeezing Lemon Juice into the Wounds, if we were to continue Selling Animals that carried a virus. IBD anyone? Maybe not so drastic, but DANG. Enough is Enough!

Just like the Scaleless ball pythons, and how so many are against it, why on EARTH should people be breeding and selling Dragons with no scales? Its all wrong....

I fully agree with you. And even though the full effects of IBD hasnt been seen in relation to all the dragons yet, it is supposed to be very similar.
If I remember correctly when IBD started it was first ignored by some. and it got worse. Looks like the same is going to happen here.
The scaleless balls are wrong just as this is. Its taking a handicap and making it show in all of them. Would it be right to do this in people? If someone purposly did that people would be inraged but yet it is ok in animals

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

Well then its up to us to talk for them! :P and the People that are upstanding in the bearded dragon community should fight it with all they've got! its the only way its going to be stopped.

And this is a good idea. I am fully behind it. But then theres all that dont listen. or dont care. Those numbers are alot higher. Though sad its true.
Since my dragons were positive I tried to help and get involved and most the time people ended up hurt. And the ones being honest and doing the right thing drug down that rocky road.