I've got to ask.....

I am sitting here wasting a few minutes reading this forum while scarfing my lunch down. As I read through some of the threads I am finding it hard to eat as my jaw keeps hitting the ground.

So, my question is this. Why do you keep hots? Is for the thrill of keeping something this dangerous? Is it simply for their looks? What attracted you to them?

I keep various boa's because I truly do enjoy holding them, showing them to various groups etc. They are pets as well as a nice way of making some extra income.

I just cannot see myself ever keeping a hot. Just the sheer thought of being tagged by one is enough of a deterent for me to never own one. So, I thought I would ask what attracted you to keeping them? Just curious how other minds work.

Griz

While you may very well be genuine in your interest, Bob, that question is akin to people that don't get it asking why you keep boas. Nothing said in explanation will really make sense to the inquiring parties. At best, the answer is accepted at face value and the subject is dropped (how often does that happen?). More often, the questioning persists and the result is frustrating...and leads (to some degree) to a loss of respect on at least one side.

Not the type of response I thought I would read. I am looking for what one's motivation would be to keep a potentially lethal animal as part of your collection. Is it the cool factor? Is it the I simply love to look at them? It was not intended to start a debate. I have adequately explained my love for boa's countless times without anyone walking away rolling there eyes.

Griz

I do not think I would ever keep hot snakes.

I do plan to work with Gilas in the next several years. I am waiting until my children are out of the house though. It will probably be 18 - 20 years down the road. I have always been fascinated by them and drawn to them for some reason.

If I may be permitted to use a cliche Bob, if we have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.
Just as Harald said, if you cannot fathom why anyone would keep hots, then no explanation will be adequate.
For me, there is no cool factor, I don't broadcast the fact I keep hots. In fact, when a non herper asks if I keep anything venomous (usually the first or second question someone asks), I usually just lie and say no. It's none of their business, and I prefer people did not know I keep hots unless they share the interest.
People can and do hold the same level of love and fascination for hots that you hold for boas. If you can look at it from that perspective, then you might understand it, but I wouldn't count on it.

Do very many HOTS keepers milk their specimens for venom used for AV or for various venom studies? It would seem to be the most simple way to acquire this and negates the need for field collection. I too have a fascination with venomous species and have considered getting some proper training and upgrading to have a room fit for keeping them but have always stopped short. Total respect for those that keep them, safely, and no questions about what led to the decision from me. I only question when repeated envenomations happen. Like boids and colubrids, it's not a question of will you get bitten, but when and how often. Those people that keep them with out getting tagged, especially for years and years, are truly top-notch handlers in my book.

PM sent, to avoid sidetracking Bob's thread...in addition (sorry, I forgot to mention in the message), there is another thread here dealing with that very subject. Use the search function - if you are unable to locate it, shoot me a PM

Originally Posted by Clay Davenport

If I may be permitted to use a cliche Bob, if we have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.

As much as I don't buy into that statement I reckon I will chalk this up to the brotherhood of venomous keepers. If asking a simple question like this is against the unwritten code then I apologize. I did not realize that venomous keepers did not have the ability/desire to put in writing their reasonings behind keeping them. A simple, "they have always fascinated me therefore I want to keep them" would have been sufficient and I would have understood. I have simply been real curious as to the benefits vs risk aspect of them and what makes the keepers tick when it comes to these animals.

I saw a Bushmaster at Tinley Park in 2005 and I have to admit, it was probably the most beautiful animal I have laid my eyes on. Would I ever keep one? Not in a million years but I will promise that any time I get the chance to look at one I will.

Griz

Bob,

First let me say that I have no desire to keep venomous (or frogs or water turtles or countless other species of reptile). The risk and responsibility is something that I personally do not wish to take on. But that is something that each of us have to decide for ourselves.

But I certainly find them to be amazing critters and understand peoples fascination and desire to keep them. It is really no different than any other persons reasons for keeping whatever species they do. The love of the species and enjoying getting to learn from and understand the animal on a level that you cant unless you keep them first hand.

And I do not think that "brotherhood" statement was fair. I know first hand and I am sure you do to, the amount of people who view keeping snakes of any kind as some kind of taboo. It gets tiring and frustrating trying to explain anything to them because they will never understand what you are telling them. It makes you not want to explain anything to anyone anymore.

It is only 100 times worse for hot keepers. They dont only get it just from the "snakes in general are taboo" people, they also get it from a fair percentage of herp keepers. So I understand what Clay and Harald were saying, it was not meant as an insult to you, but more a reflection of the frustration they have felt over the years. So dont take it the wrong way.

Originally Posted by Griz

A simple, "they have always fascinated me therefore I want to keep them" would have been sufficient and I would have understood.
Griz

No, you wouldn't have understood. You would have accepted the answer as being as good of one as you would likely recieve, but it would not have brought understanding as to why someone keeps a venomous snake.
The reason is it is an inadequate answer that doesn't actually explain anything.

Let me put this another way. I haven't the least amount of interest in keeping a mamba. I am a venomous keeper, and I still can find no reasonable justification for a private individual to keep something that dangerous. I have asked a mamba keeper, while viewing his specimen, why he wanted to keep one and he replied with basically the same answer. I couldn't see that as an adequate reason any more that a non-venomous keeper can see it as applied to hots as a whole.
That being said, I do not attempt to argue the point with someone who keeps mambas, I simply accept it as their choice to make, and that I will never understand it completely.

There is no secret code of the venomous brotherhood where this question is taboo, and I didn't mean to make you feel put off for asking. It's just that for someone who doesn't keep them, and has no desire to in the future, no reason is adequate for someone like me to keep something venomous. I don't milk them, I don't handle them. I just enjoy keeping them. Hearing the buzz when I walk into the room is fun too.

It's like me asking why anyone would want to keep an 20 foot retic. No reason they give justifies it to me, being a person with zero interest in keeping something that big. For that matter I can't understand why anyone would want a pet hamster. It's just a matter of personal preferance.