Rare Pythons in Niagara Falls NY

Originally Posted by Bill Stonegate

Yes, it's true I have studied genetics. No, it's not true I am defending anyone.

So why are you attaching everyone here? I dont see your dog in this hunt.....

And before you ask, my dog in this hunt is you attacking very respected people on this site and in the hobby like Harald and Gary. They are creditable.... you are not.

Now back to the topic at hand. Does anyone have genetic evidence of Chris' claims? Babies from any clutches he has produced? Even seen babies besides the ones hatched from the farmed females?

attaching = attacking..... fat fingers

Originally Posted by norsmis

So why are you attaching everyone here? I dont see your dog in this hunt.....

And before you ask, my dog in this hunt is you attacking very respected people on this site and in the hobby like Harald and Gary. They are creditable.... you are not.

Now back to the topic at hand. Does anyone have genetic evidence of Chris' claims? Babies from any clutches he has produced? Even seen babies besides the ones hatched from the farmed females?

I'm not attacking them, I'm challenging them to provide firm data.

Originally Posted by Bill Stonegate

I'm not attacking them, I'm challenging them to provide firm data.

As Chris has been asked to do... with no results. The proof you ask for is out there and been proven by MANY breeders. Do a google search for ivories and you will find all the info you need sir....

Bill

The basics of Ball python Genetics are not really under discussion here. If you have a grounding in genetics then the concept of recessive, dominant and co-dominant traits should be well within your grasp. Go to Google and type in "Ball Python genetics". A half dozen sites will pop up that explain the basics and cover the existing morphs..

The issue under discussion isn't if the genetics exist, it is whether Chris is misrepresenting his animals.

Originally Posted by Bill Stonegate

I'm not attacking them, I'm challenging them to provide firm data.

Post# 140 & 145 do sort of seem like borderline attacks to me, Bill.

Originally Posted by Suncoast Herpetological

Bill

The basics of Ball python Genetics are not really under discussion here. If you have a grounding in genetics then the concept of recessive, dominant and co-dominant traits should be well within your grasp. Go to Google and type in "Ball Python genetics". A half dozen sites will pop up that explain the basics and cover the existing morphs..

The issue under discussion isn't if the genetics exist, it is whether Chris is misrepresenting his animals.

Ok, I did that. All I found was a bunch of breeders with a a bunch of anecdotal info.

Maybe you could point me to a site that tells me about the results of breeding my my yellow crested ivory to my triple het reverse black hat semi albino near ghost.

I agree Chris is probably trying to pull a fast one here, but guys like you make it too easy.

Originally Posted by Bill Stonegate

Ok, I did that. All I found was a bunch of breeders with a a bunch of anecdotal info.

So people bred "x" with "y" and got "z". Considering the photographic evidence and the ability to reproduce results in a controlled environment (breeding facility), I'd consider that "anecdotal info" to be data at least, and proof at best.

In addition, I think it is highly unlikely for anyone with any backround in either herps or genetics, let alone both, to be forming the argument you have chosen to. I feel you are intentionally trying to take this thread off topic with your nonsensical remarks....or am I just giving you too much credit?

I'll be the first to agree that much of what is "known" about BP genetics is not based on science, Bill. Most breeders don't have advanced genetics knowledge (some do), and morphs are "tested" by multiple breedings (not necessarily in accordance with scientific method). If you are looking for hard data, vs anecdotal evidence, in the area of snake genetics, I'm afraid you have a long wait....however, I'll submit that some anecdotal evidence is better than others, and reliable information can still be obtained.

Originally Posted by hhmoore

I'll be the first to agree that much of what is "known" about BP genetics is not based on science, Bill. Most breeders don't have advanced genetics knowledge (some do), and morphs are "tested" by multiple breedings (not necessarily in accordance with scientific method). If you are looking for hard data, vs anecdotal evidence, in the area of snake genetics, I'm afraid you have a long wait....however, I'll submit that some anecdotal evidence is better than others, and reliable information can still be obtained.

Stop being so nice to the jackass and just open the door with his head as you're throwing him out. No one is going to miss him or think you're just being a meanie.